Would you send your child to a grammar school ?

Oh and inevitably, if you have not that many kids choosing a particular subject at GCSE, you only have enough for one class, so no setting. I recently taught a GCSE language class which had everything from potential Oxbridge candidates to lids who still had major literacy problems in their own language. Impossible!

But Exotic, it is quite common not to set, even in good comprehensives. I'm not saying I like it, but there are lots of reasons why schools or departments choose not to. Mostly to do with timetabling or usually that they actually think mixed ability works better - as my current department does, unfortunately.

Inverse? Reverse? Ahem, my English letting me down

OP, it is all up to you, the make up and boys thing too. Personally I do not think make up is a big bad thing. The "boys" thing does not lead to pregnancy if you are open about sex, explain about condoms, let her start the pill when she wants ( being on it does mot lead to wild behaviour, in my school lots of 15-16 yr olds went on the pill, me included). Saying that, I am Scandinavian, and am often puzzled by attitudes to sex here in my beloved new home country.. But anyway, talking about it helps ( not just the once, and not just about the biological side, but discuss the emotional side, discuss being pressurised, discuss porn, discuss LIFE.

As to schools, try for the grammar and decide after you are offered a place.

To lequeen, I live in an area of amazing comps, closest one gets 95% 5 A-C and 90% A-C maths and English. There is an atmosphere of it being cool to do well.

Don't know if this kind of school is really rare though, other comps around here seem very good too.

The state schools here all do sets, the sets are within bands, the top band would be like grammar school I presume, so not such a big difference.

I would also discuss your DD and friends' attitude about "normal" schools. IMO it is silly to allow a child to limit her own chances for the future through inverse snobbery.

Reading OP again I would try for the grammar school-it sounds as if you haven't got great comprehensives. There is no harm in just trying-and then, as Dogwalks says, decide if you have a choice.

Sit the exam, then decide. I went to a grammar school, and always wanted the same education for my children. After looking around i was amazed how great a lot of the comps where. We ended up in the opinion that after the test we could decide with a bit of insite what was best for them. My daughter chose a girls grammar and although being from one of the most normal ( not wealthy) family's is very happy. My son sits his 11 plus soon and again it just adds another choice. good luck.

If they don't set it isn't like a grammar school- if they set then there is no difference.

I can't see why they wouldn't set for everything.

It is chicken and egg really- in my area they are not creamed off because the comprehensives are good - I'm not sure what comes first.

Well not really. In the area where I live, many of the 'successful parents who want the best and get it' send their children to the many good private schools in the area, thereby creaming off many of the able and motivated children. And yes, I do think that some of the same children would behave differently in different schools, in the same way that a child's attitude and attainment might be changed (to a lesser extent perhaps) by moving him/her up a set.

I think you miss the point entirely homessweetholmes, that where there are no grammar schools all the pupils go to the comprehensive and they are in classes with similar type children. They have highly successful parents who want the best and they get it. Why the same children should act differently in two different buildings beats me- a child in a grammar school is surrounded by children of similar ability- a child in a comprehensive is surrounded by children of similar ability. They do set for subjects!!
The only odd occasion that my children have been disrupted in lessons I have phoned the school and it has been sorted.

However the uplifting thing is verysmallsqeak that there are actually a mere 64 grammar schools left in England and a tiny minority go to them. The majority are doing very well in comprehensives where they are educated with other like minded, high achieving, pupils with parents who expect the best and they do go to Oxbridge and RG universities- DS did and he wasn't odd, just one of many.
I am very thankful that we are in a grammar school free area.

Hmm - I might put it more like this: It is difficult to foster a really purposeful, aspirational and rigorously academic atmosphere in a school where many of the students do not see the value of that type of education, and particularly when their parents do not see that value either. These are often, but not always, the less academically able, and tbh, some of them are quite right that an academic education will not be very useful to them personally. Whereas those students who are bright, but tend towards the lazy/ apathetic would be much more likely to pull their socks up if they were surrounded by pupils who want to achieve, and for whom making an effort is respected and normal, not something to be made fun of. That's how I see it anyway.

I know that many people think that going to a 'secondary modern' dooms kids to low achievement, but as I recall, many of the ones near where I lived got better results than many comps, in spite of only having the lower half of the ability range.

Add message | Report | Message poster noddyholder Fri 20-Sep-13 17:42:22
I always though grammar schools were for those who couldn't afford private. The fur coat no knickers brigade !

THE post of the year

Just saying.

Mine went to/are at a comp (as boarders). My DDs got straight A/A* and are now at first class universities. There were/are clever, not clever, disruptive, not disruptive throughout their schooling. The obvious pairings do NOT go together in a lot of cases. They also have friends from some of the so called 'elite' public schools who were expelled/denied sixth form places. Grammar school/private school no more gives you guaranteed RG bound young ladies and men than comps give you badly behaved reprobates. To suggest otherwise (as is clear on this thread) suggests an element of arrogant ignorance.

I think all I have got from this thread is a rather depressing feeling that according to some of you,a lot of averagely bright children who would have liked to achieve are doomed if they enter the majority of secondary schools.

And that the presence of the less academically gifted kids is really what holds them down.

That's a really damning attitude,so please tell me I'm wrong here.

FWIW I think if you have an intelligent child who could only perform in the protective environment of a GS,their life skills may be somewhat lacking when they enter the big bad world.

Nit . No, don't feel one bit guilty. Worked 8 years in London comps at the start of my career. Going to a leafy private school was like sinking into a comfy duvet... Would have gone back there if they'd had any jobs going!

1grin] at TOSN

None of this proves anything new to me

Basically, as usual, it depends on the grammar/comp/indie/area/kid/etc. Blanket assumptions are a bit daft, I think, as are sweeping judgements.

One thing I do know, is that I agree with Minty (oh I love your ds!) about explaining our mad, mad system to a 10 year old. It really does strike me as the height of insanity.

I've been watching some ace talks on education on TED talks....and am even more convinced of the insanity of the current system. 'Academic inflation' is a good description.

What, and you still feel a bit guilty...?

For the record, I am also not saying you don't get lots of nice, hard-working kids at good comprehensives. I currently work at a comprehensive which, according to Ofsted, is outstanding in all categories (very hard to achieve with Ofsted's new standards). It honestly seems to be a very good school. However, I still find the apathetic, couldn't-care-less attitude of quite a lot of the students depressing. And at another 'good' comp at which I recently did some supply work, half the kids couldn't even be bothered to bring a pen or their books to lessons.
Apologies - I have drifted into tired, grumpy teacher Friday rant. Also, my opinions may be coloured by the fact that, before that, I worked in a private school for 10 years...

Curlew... Yes.