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Original poster

Would you send your child to a grammar school ?

331 replies

HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin · 18/09/2013 19:27

This is going to be quite long and rambling but I wanted to find out how much of my own experiences are clouding my judgement.

Okay, where we live there are not any great schools unless you are in the correct feeder schools, which we aren't as we moved to the area after Reception.

I know people say that all the time, but it's true - I'm not a snob I promise! Grin

There are a few grammar schools within a commutable distance, and after researching all the local schools, look like the best choice.

I say choice as they are not necessarily an option for us. DD is bright, on the top table (apparently), but as I said already we live in a really deprived area. Half the children don't even wear the uniform let alone turn up for school. If she were at a better performing school she might be more average, I don't know.

So anyway I was going to do a practice verbal and non-verbal reasoning test with her just to see if she had any natural aptitude or not, and then consider whether we should try for a grammar or not.

BUT... She doesn't want to go to a school like that, she wants to go to one with normal people.

Oh the irony! Her words are exactly I said to my very working class parents and my head teacher after turning down a place at a grammar school. My dad was angry but my mum let me make my own mind up.

Subsequently I went on to a 'normal' school and academically I achieved as well as I would have at the grammar, but but but I can't help thinking that if I'd have mixed with girls from the other school, I may have not ended up pregnant at 18 living in a council flat Confused!

I know my DD is very easily led, even more so than me (she gets it from her dad's side)Grin and I think when she goes to secondary school she'll be more interested in boys and makeup than getting As.

So what should I do?

I said it'd be long!

OP posts:
Slipshodsibyl · 18/09/2013 21:17

Turn the telly off.... At least when programmes like Towie are on.

Original poster
HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin · 18/09/2013 20:52

I just told her that most of the girls from TOWIE went to grammar school (it's probably not true but I'm sure one of them attended a private school)!

She said it can't be true because they look stupid ( not clever and therefore ugly then).

I said the only reason why they've made a success and all have businesses despite their non-ugliness is because of the brilliant education they received.

I may have given her something to think about (even if its not true). Grin

OP posts:
Thisisaeuphemism · 18/09/2013 20:48

Maybe it would also help if you got some nice sixth formers to baby sit her or something - preferably one who is not ugly ;)
If she knows some normal girls at the school she might change her mind.

Slipshodsibyl · 18/09/2013 20:46

Peer group is the biggest influence on children through secondary school. This isn't really a grammar versus comprehensive issue - more to do with the people she meets. Sadly, once a school gets an unsatisfactory rating parents move their children. I'm an ex secondary teacher and have taught at schools throughout the socio economic spectrum.

Bright children will most certainly not do well everywhere and she is far too young to decide this wisely. She needs you to make a sensible choice on her behalf. In the meantime, if you are in London, start spending weekends at venues that raise her aspirations. There are so many cost free opportunities.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/09/2013 20:43

Ah well according to my DD, 'geek chic' is for wannabe geeks and so isn't cool - what's cool is being able to actually do stuff not just dress the part. Substance not appearance.

wickedwitchNE · 18/09/2013 20:41

I have to say I was exactly like your DD. I absolutely refused to consider going to a grammar, preferring the local (awful) comp where all my friends were going. In the end my parents gave me no choice in the matter, and despite the tantrums and arguments, it was the best thing they ever could have done for me. I was too easily led by other people and at primary school held myself back on purpose to fit in. Grammar school was amazing for me in the end, and there was such a wide range of kids - definitely not all geeks!

Don't feel guilty pushing her to it if you honestly feel it will benefit her. Has she visited the school or been around it at home time (to see tht not all the pupils are ugly!)? Can't think of any other practical ideas to convince her, other than bribery!

Original poster
HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin · 18/09/2013 20:39

Yes that's what I'm worried about.

At home she's proud of her achievements and tries hard with her homework. But she doesn't want to be seen to be like a geek.

I thought geek chic was cool, she even made me buy her geek glasses.

I may have to take her to these schools and show her how her idea of 'ugly clever geeks' is completely wrong.

OP posts:
tallulah · 18/09/2013 20:37

My DD was adamant she wasn't going to grammar school (Kent) because none of her friends were going. Then we went to the Open Evening and she had a chat to the HT about what was available at the school and came away determined to go there.

She was exactly as you describe your DD. Her best friend was at the bottom of the class so she stopped writing in pen and gradually got herself moved to the bottom table. In those days you had to have a HT recommendation to get into grammar and ours fought us every step of the way.

She ended up at a private school and went completely the other way; really pushing herself to beat the brightest boy in the class.

I would take your DD to the open days/ evenings now so that she can see for herself that the girls at grammar are "normal".

Original poster
HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin · 18/09/2013 20:36

I've worked so hard for everything we have. She knows how hard I've worked to have a decent standard of living (well I'm still trying to accomplish that one).

I thought I was doing it to have the best life for me, but what's the point if she's going to waste her opportunities.

I'm not impressed about her comment about ugly people either!!

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 18/09/2013 20:35

Well she's just told me that she doesn't want to go to school with geeky, ugly people.

blimey. Well, my DD and some of her friends are self-confessed geeks, but for sure none of them are ugly (as if that mattered anyway, sounds like she needs a bit of education on valuing people for the content of their character). An anti-geek attitude at this early age doesn't bode too well - sounds like she could be one of the 'being clever isn't cool' types and get dragged down- whereas if she goes to a GS its the norm (the geeks are the ones who are into electronics and computer science in particular)

kilmuir · 18/09/2013 20:33

My daughter is not ugly or geeky and loves grammar school

Original poster
HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin · 18/09/2013 20:32

It's the area we live in and the girls she mixes with at her undersubscribed (in London!!) unsatisfactory primary school.

I've begged and pleaded and cried to get her a place in the brilliant school I work in, but we live out of catchment.

She's on the waiting list and if she gets in this year, can go on to the better local school which I'd be happy with. But that doesn't look likely.

She's so easily led I'm petrified that she's going to ruin her future. I'm sure my dad is turning in his grave!

OP posts:
VerySmallSqueak · 18/09/2013 20:31

Are any of her friends taking the 11 plus?

It'd be worth finding out if you can.

VerySmallSqueak · 18/09/2013 20:30

If that's the problem,do what springlamb does and take her to see them chucking out.

springlamb · 18/09/2013 20:29

You need to go to see these schools full of geeky ugly people asap. This term's open days/evenings will be for Yr 5s as well, do the rounds.
I do think she will have to be engaged in the process and actually want to attend the school.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/09/2013 20:29

Definitely get some tours in school time when she's in year 5.

My DD is at a girls' GS - they are 'normal people'. But they do seem to have a good work ethos - one of the things that sold the school to DD was the school tour where the atmosphere in the classrooms was one which suited her (lively but focused, I'd say).

From what you've said about your DD, her peers are really going to matter - some bright kids will do well anywhere if they're self-motivated and determined, but it sounds like she could do with having the odds stacked to help her.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 18/09/2013 20:28

Oh god OP, what an attitude to have already! Confused Where does that come from?

Original poster
HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin · 18/09/2013 20:22

Well she's just told me that she doesn't want to go to school with geeky, ugly people.

I asked her why she thinks they will all be ugly, and it's because clever people are ugly apparently.

Yes that lack of ambition has definitely rubbed off on her already.Hmm

If she carries on with that attitude ill have to send her to a convent!

OP posts:
Original poster
HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin · 18/09/2013 20:17

We haven't been to see any schools, this is all just in my head at the moment.

I need to find out if she's bright enough first before I waste anyone's time.

Thank you for all of your responses. I don't feel like such a bad mother anymore.

OP posts:
SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 18/09/2013 20:17

Yes. My ds goes to grammar school. My mum fought to get me into a grammar school after we re-located when I was 11, and succeeded. I wasn't that keen at the time, but it really was the best decision for me.

My ds1 is at a grammar school now - dh and I really did see it as mainly our decision not his but luckily he agreed with us Grin

springlamb · 18/09/2013 20:14

Cross-post.
Have you visited all the possible schools? If your DD is Year 6 you will be like a whirling dervish visiting schools!
Although I expressed no preference for either of the 3 schools DD opted to put on her list, I was relieved with her first choice (which she now attends).
I felt it was a place where she could really be herself and be encouraged not to follow the crowd. I just kind of 'felt it'. It felt like a 'dd' place. A|
Me being me, I also had parked up at hometime at each of the schools to see the range of students leaving. Neurotic...moi?!?

Gunznroses · 18/09/2013 20:14

Has she been to see the grammar school? Maybe if you went on a private tour she could get to chat with some of the girls there and see that they are quite normal.

Have you talked about what she might want to do in future? This might also be a way of making the link with the grammar schools and the oppotunities it might offer her towards that.

Original poster
HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin · 18/09/2013 20:09

That's how I explained it to her, in terms of her future.

I said if she's clever at a comprehensive, she'll be set work that'll be just as hard as the grammar school. But that she'll mix with different people and have greater opportunities than if she went to our local school.

But she's 9! She doesn't care about that stuff. She won't until she's 27 and wishing she could turn back time. Confused

OP posts:
springlamb · 18/09/2013 20:08

My situation slightly different.
We were moving from a no grammar area to a grammar area. The move was planned for a couple of years so DD was Yr 4/5 when we began thinking about secondary. DD is very clever and would easily have passed 11+.
She didn't want a grammar, despite lots of discussion. I felt that as we were instigating so many changes in her life with the move that we had to allow her some leeway.
So we applied (from out of borough, 60 miles away) for the three schools she had really liked on open days. Her first choice had a slightly selective policy (the top 20% in the exam were offered a place), and she got her first choice on that basis.
She is very happy and is enjoying the curriculum, is active in school life. And I must say I am rather impressed...so far.

Original poster
HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin · 18/09/2013 20:04

If I thought she wasn't able i would not dream of coaching her. I don't want her to struggle!

She has the sort of personality where she could fit in in different situations. Me being a teacher hopefully means she wouldn't be bullied for being poor or a 'chav' or whatever somebody ^ up there was implying. Grin

I always said that it wouldn't matter where she went as long as she works hard, but I know her and I know she tries so hard to fit in that she would act the way the people around her do. At the moment it's pretending she's not bright and saying she doesn't understand things, because she plays with a girl who is like that.

I'm sure if she was surrounded by hardworking girls, she'd want to be just like them too.

OP posts:
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