Viewing secondary schools - what do I need to ask/think about?

This list might add a couple of ideas

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/a1560040-List-of-questions-for-open-days

i asked a couple of pupils if they had ever had to play dumb (i had to as a survival.tactic) and was delighted at their horrified responses!

having read a couple of other threads today, I'd say you need to ask the head whether they value uniform over education, or vice versa.

In fact, I'd steer clear of anyone who tells you that their super-strict uniform policy is Raising Standards Across the Board.

but with the caveat that DCs school lost LOADS of staff last term, but it was all very amicable due to a change in strategy from a recruitment plan a few years ago.

ask about staff turnover

Indeed, what you don't see or hear is the most revealing - schools take note!

Actually, one school offered no chance to talk to any staff at all. I found that interesting.

Yes, we were shown round one school by hand-picked prefect girls in year 11; round another by madly enthusiastic small boys in Year 7 who'd been there all of three weeks at that point.

The first were charming and well informed but somehow bland. We went with 'daft but keen' for DS and it's suited him very well.

Passthetwiglets
DD is one of the people who shows prospective parents and teachers around her school.
She was coached a bit, but is basically trusted to not say anything too outrageous.
During the 25 minutes walking around you get quite a lot of time to chat.
Also, watch the reactions of other pupils to the one showing you round - do they look embarrassed or greet them as normal?

No!

Ask the kids who show you around all the "how does this feel to a child stuff" about homework, bullying etc. Ask staff about how teaching is organised (sets etc), choice of GCSEs, policy (much of this may be covered in HT talk anyway).

Ask them how they teach evolution.

Not because it's terribly important, but because it's interesting to see if they start trying to figure out whether you mean "because I'm an evolutionary biologist and want to make sure you're up to speed" or "because I'm a headbanging creationist and what to keep Satan out of the classroom". Confident schools are confident, and will just tell you what they do. Schools that have a tendency to pander to noisy parents who represent only themselves will tend to start hemming and hawing.

If you want to know about pastoral care, Ofsted report covers this, but it depends how recent it is. At the open evening, seek out the Head of Year for Year 7, or who ever will be responsible for DS' care, and see what you think of them.
You want to know about progress, as well as raw exam results - www.education.gov.uk/schools/performance/ tells you this.
The website www.how-to-choose-a-school.org/ is not-for-profit, and goes through everything you need to know about choosing a secondary school.

There are some excellent questions on this thread.

I think that looking at the general enthusiam of the children is important. One school we went to had hardly any children on open evening because none of them wanted to come in. A neighbouring school seemed to have every school in the school and it was hard to move for the sheer number of kids.

I think that talking to the children reveals a lot about their school. It is interesting to see whether the children are hand picked or whether they allow the low ablity children to take parents round. One school that we were impressed with allowed the children who were in a unit for chidlren with speech and language difficulties to show the parents round. (In partnership with a child who hasn't got learning difficulties.)

Taken aback, horrified, yes exactly. I found happy trivial conversations about lost jumpers or homework most reassuring and think good pastoral care is easier to deliver in a school whose size makes happy trivial conversations a regular event.

pastoral care:

• you could ask the children who they would turn to if there was a problem (should be a variety of options: tutor, head of year, learning support etc)
• find out if there is a 'safe place' to go at lunchtimes (eg library)
• we asked about instances of anorexia and teen pregnancy
• look at exclusion rates and perhaps ask about y10/11 'drop out' rates if you can. as school with high exclusions or drop outs may not have good care

I would not be wary of a school that does not offer tours on a non-open day - in a popular school that could be seriously disruptive. I found school time open days quite revealing though - if they were putting on a glossy, slick performance, they hadn't told the staff and students .

Ask what happens if someone gets teased in year 7, how long their homework takes them (ask several children this as just one answer may just tell you something about that child), and notice how the children respond to staff pleasantries.

Be prepared to see the best in the teenagers you meet - they are mostly lovely and can say some very funny things, even on open days.

I agree with looking hard at results, they do matter, and good ones for all ability groups are a sign the school can do something well. The headline A*-C figure is pretty irrelevant.

I am not sure there is a way of finding out lots about pastoral care because it is quite hard to phrase questions to to the children showing you round - for all you know, they may have been bullied and you should not be asking things that are too personal anyway. But tune your radar into the feel of the place as others have said and the relationships between staff and kids

Totally agree with all above advice. Visit on open day & if impressed ask if can revisit during a normal school day so can see kids in class. Any sch not willing to do that I would be wary of.
Consider schools specialist area , my Ds loves maths , music & sport , if can tick 1 or 2 of those boxes then great.
Nothing better than talking to the kids or hanging outside in morning or after school to see outside behaviour.
Most importantly don't stress , somehow it all works out ok , seems so daunting but will be fine.
Finally don't just look at results , secondary sch should also help prepare our kids to develop into well balanced happy young adults. We missed a grammar in S London by 3 places , he went to our 2nd choice and is happy a Larry and academically achieving

When looking at results dig deeper than the headline figures - student achievement versus capability/predicted grades and the breakdown within each boundary are both good indicators of true achievement. 90% A-C may sound good but if the majority are Cs rather than As/As or students are achieving Cs when predicted As then there may be issues. Schools will spin results/Ofsted findings to their advantage and may be hiding something underneath.

Also be wary of what you are told by staff - generally all have been very well briefed beforehand about the 'party line' and will be very wary of deviating from it, particularly if SLT are around. Speak to students and current parents if you can, they may be more open and honest.

Visiting on a 'normal' day is good if it is at all possible, you will get a much more honest picture. Remember open days/evenings are a sales talk at the end of the day and keep this in mind - 'what is the worst thing about the school?' can be a good question for staff and SLT as well, the range of answers you receive can be very revealing!