Is it usual to need a grade A GCSE to do A level maths now?

So does that mean he just scraped a B in one paper, is a solid B in the other 2 but no A papers at all?

It does still seem as if you are looking at the A level as being easy from your perspective (ie someone good at maths) and not from the perspective of your son. What is it he wants to do?

OP on one hand it's great that you are willing to support your son but only if its what he really wants to, parental pressures aside.

But it comes across as if you and your DH are steamrolling him into this and perhaps setting him up for disappointment. I do think that there is such a thing as a maths ceiling for a person (mine was a-level further maths and despite working my ass off for it only scraped a C).

As asked before, which unis were you thinking of? Surely that will give you an indication as to the feasibility of home tutoring.

x-posts with noble

Jella, those percentages are the ones that have been adjusted for the difficulty of the paper. With UMS 80% is an A (always) and 70% is a B (always). The actual raw percentage achieved on the paper itself may be higher lower or the same as this, supposedly according to the difficulty of the paper. On this syllabus the actual percentage needed for an A is usually a bit less than 80%, although on the linear syllabus it is usually much less, meaning that many teacher believe it is easier to get higher grades on the linear syllabus, probably because many schools switch children who are on paper (KS2 SAT results) the same ability but who have performed poorly on the early modules to the linear syllabus.

Not sure this tells you anything useful, but it does seem that not all GCSE maths syllabuses are equal, though they may well all be equally poor preparation for A level.

Neither you nor your DH will be the ones having to sit the exam. It's your DS.

Does he actually want to be an engineer or to take on so much work? You haven't answered this question yet.

jella UMS points don't exactly map to percentage scored on the paper. By my reckoning he got about 66% on module 3, 53marks out of 80 gives a UMS of 112. Grade boundaries for UMS always stay the same, the number of raw marks on a paper you need to earn those UMS points changes depending on how difficult the paper was. That's why giving a percentage isn't very helpful as one year a certain percentage will get you a B, the next only a C.

Of course your DH and you don't think C1 is difficult, you both have maths heavy degrees! You might feel differently if you only had a maths GCSE.
It's not so much the language that foxes them, (although that comes into it) it's the algebra manipulation. Completing the square in particular, especially where fractions are involved really gets them. Plenty of stages in which to make a silly mistake.

circular my school does Edexcel GCSE maths and OCR A-level without any issues so your DD should be fine with that. Afraid I don't know anything about physics!

secret you're welcome! It's good for me as a teacher to know the sorts of questions parents have and what they are thinking too! Obviously I think your school isn't taking the best course with doing stats in Y11 and having a year without algebra, so your DD doing some study outside of school is an excellent idea. The school might have some useful textbooks that they would lend your DD for this? My school has some that look like they're from the 50s and are a really solid course in algebra.

I just found this series of videos on the web for bridging the gap from GCSE to A-level. I haven't watched them but they look like they could be useful. www.m4ths.com/gcse-to-a-level-bridge.html

Have I read it right that the DS in question only did core and additional science and therefore hasn't done the third papers for any of his sciences either? Presumably he is going to be playing catch up in these subjects too then and is in for a very tough year?

My DSs at two separate schools were told that it was possible to do science a levels without three separate sciences but heavily encouraged to choose all three if they thought they would be wanting to do the A levels.

Many years ago my DH did a fifth A level which he was taught at home by his Dad. This was in the days before A stars and he got an A and went on to study the subject at uni. So it is possible. A few differences from your situation though - he was a very high scoring straight A student, the school knew and were happy about it and his Dad was an A-Level teacher of the subject with a good degree in the subject. I imagine all those factors made something of a difference to the outcome.

Hi Bruffin - have sent you an email with the details.

Thanks JGBmum have p'med you

noblegiraffe can I just say for all the helpful stuff you have posted on here and other threads.
I have DS1 who is talented at Maths, just got stunning grades at AS and plans to do Maths degree.
DS2 however manages to get good grades through sheer hard work and perseverance, helped a lot by DS1. The school put top set in for Maths in Y10 and he is about to do Y11 where they do statistics.
I am vehemently against early entry for GCSE but we had no choice. It's likely DS2 will want to do sciences and Maths A level which I think he is capable of, but a whole year without practising his Maths skills is a big mistake IMO. We are going to try and keep his hand in with regular maths revision at home over the next year to try and avoid him losing skills he has worked hard to gain. I have revision guides galore but that entrance exam paper looks very useful.

Could I add my son's experience? He is now a Chartered Engineer. He did struggle with A level maths at school, which was partly due to him, and partly due to the teacher. Once he got to University and could see how he needed it for his engineering and how it related, it began to click and he got out his A level books and revised the maths thoroughly to make sure his foundation was secure.

So yes, I think OP you have to find some way of building up his maths knowledge for the sake of his science.

(Now in my day, which was ages ago, those scientists not doing Maths A level, did a course called Maths for Scientists. I don't know whether it was an examinable course, or whether it was an initiative of the science department.)

Thank you noblegiraffe and circular - very helpful indeed. I don't want to discourage DD but I know from friends' DCs' experience that it can be a slog. She certainly needs to practise outside lessons with the mymaths thing.
Her teacher seems to think she could manage A Level but I worry she'd end up with a D which would make uni entry difficult.
As it happens she doesn't want to do sciences as she likes literature and languages, and is likely to do quite well in those at A Level - especially since DH and I can support her in those subjects! She was also considering Economics A Level which I think requires a good grasp of stats. But she's much less interested in stats than the purer maths.

Bruffin - it's worth looking at the B Eng courses for insurance. At most unis you can do a straight transfer to the MEng provided your grades are good enough.

DS applied to Cardiff and Surrey as back ups.

If your DS is considering Bristol, I can dig out the info they emailed us regarding how they score applications for offers. Let me know.

You certainly need A level maths for an engineering degree.DS is going into year 13 so at the beginning of the application process and every single course needs maths and preferably physics.The RG ones are all around A*AA. Its very difficult to find insurance courses except maybe Loughbourough foundation which want Bs

Clayhanger If your DD is just going into yr11 then she still has time to up improve and possibly raise predictions - unless she is sitting the exam early. Have you asked her teacher whether she thinks your DD would manage A level?

What other subjects is your DD hoping to take for A level?

My DD is going into a large 6th form (for a school) where they will be setting for A level maths. one set for FM students, one for remaining A*, and 3 sets for all the A graders.

Nobelgiraffe that links very useful, thanks. I may get DD to go through it once she has finished the CGP Headstart book. Bit worried that she has done no algebra since end of Feb (early sitting) Although she did attend some optional sessions for those intending to take AS, but it was all calculus.
A quick question, as DD changing schools, going from EDexcel linear GCSE to OCR A level for maths. Is there likely to be stuff she hasn't covered, but should have?
Same question for going from OCR Gateway B Physics GCSE to EDexcel A level?

I did a chemistry degree with As pure maths (a level chem grade a and maths c), at a Russell group uni, many moons ago so can only speak from my experience.

I had to take an extension maths course, same as people with no a level, which was really hard, and even with as level I really struggled with the maths elements of the course. Heard similar stories from biologists who struggled with stats.

DH, who did physics degree and phd and is now an alevel tutor, said he thought a level maths was essential for that course, plus engineering courses he took.

Like I said, only speaking from my xperience.

Clay your DD shouldn't be put off maths if she is going to get an A and enjoys it! She will find it more difficult than an A* candidate, but if she puts the work in and seeks help if she's struggling, then she definitely can do well.

Best advice would be to make sure her algebra is really strong, that's where most students fall down. She needs to be able to confidently manipulate expressions, expand brackets, factorise quadratics (including where a>1), simplify algebraic fractions and solve quadratics using factorising, completing the square and the quadratic formula. She needs to be able to solve any form of linear equation, and simultaneous equations. Dealing with fractions is something she needs to be able to do in her sleep, add/subtract, convert mixed and top heavy. C1 is non calc and for lots of students it's been a long time since they've been asked to do it.

The Haydon AS level entrance exam prep I linked to upthread would be worth her looking at
www.haydonschool.com/hy/content/download/1094/4208/file/A-Level+Maths+Entrance+Exam+Information.pdf

She doesn't need to be able to do all of it, but if she is confident with her algebra, she will find the transition to A-level much easier.

Boosiehs bit puzzled by your reply - do you mean Physics without maths would not be acceptable for Physics based degree? There must be students that take chemistry related degrees without maths?

This thread is really informative- thank you. I have a query. DD is in top set maths at school and is predicted an A in maths and on current form will get a B in Statistics. She enjoys it but is evidently in the lower half of the set.

She would quite like to take it on but judging from the comments here, there's not much point unless she's A material. My question is: what exactly are the A skills/topics that you need to have a hope of doing Maths AS Level? Sorry to ask the basic question (I dropped Maths after a B at O Level) but I need to be armed..

When i did olevel in 79 a D was a fail by 5% or less

hi, my ds also had an 'A' grade maths last year at gcse, but had his results for maths As on the 15th August and was an 'U'!! He worked really hard to get the 'A' grade at gcse as maths did not come to him that easily. He really regrets taking the subject now and does not want to re-sit any maths exams so basically has wasted a whole year. Personally I would not recommend A level maths unless you really love the subject and good at it. This is only my personal opinion though!