Is it usual to need a grade A GCSE to do A level maths now?

Oh good, noble. I am pleased to hear it. As I am very old, I am not really au fait with GCSEs!

somewhere I can only echo the advice given by hells. CGP book, and mymaths. On mymaths, on the left hand menu there is a link to "Booster Packs". The D to C booster packs should give him plenty of practice. If he has an individual login on top of the school login, he can use the worksheets in the booster packs to see where his weak areas are and to track his progress. If he finds them too tough to start with, he could try the next set down (6 boosters I think).

Harum yes, quadratic equations are covered at GCSE! :)

Cricketballs - I think this must vary from university to university. I certainly had to have an A level in Maths for my degree, as did DH. And both of our courses contained mathematical content well beyond quadratic equations and applying C grade GCSE maths. Presumably there is a sliding scale of Maths requirements from C grade at GCSE to A grade at A level and potentially Further Maths too. So in some ways it depends on which universities he is aiming at.

Whilst yes I had to learn quadratic equations and had to apply maths

Aren't quadratic equations covered at GCSE?

Not sure about only needing a GCSEin maths now for engineering cricketballs - my son needed an A level in the subject, although I don't think the Pure Maths part was necessarily the best preparation. The RG university where my son went to will let you do engineering without A level maths, but you need to do an extra foundation year - which is when they teach the maths, I believe.

There is an ENORMOUS difference between the standard required to get an A at GCSE and the standard required to get even a C at A level, in almost all subjects. A levels really do up the ante and the pressure is huge. If the school requires an A at GCSE it is because they genuinely believe that someone who cannot get an A will not cope with the rigours of A level in Maths.

about the issue that you need A Level maths if you are to study physics/engineering etc.......I completed 2 years of a physics degree after qualifying as an electronics engineer (dropped out of degree due to personal reasons) and I don't have a maths qualification higher than C grade GCSE (certainly nether studied it beyond GCSE). Whilst yes I had to learn quadratic equations and had to apply maths there was never a pre-requisite to have a higher maths qualification or to study maths further

HisMum I think at most schools they have to take 4 to AS level then can drop one & carry 3 subjects on for the full A-level.

Are 4 A-level subjects compulsory?

Thanks for that, will find out about the exam board, at the options evening they told me he is borderline for higher and foundation paper and a decision would be made this year about his best chance for a C, but hopefully they are the same exam board.

I think you are right and i will start with the basics and build on that. He does have a mymaths logon, so will encourage him to do a little on that often! I don't want to turn into a nag, but do want him to get a C!!!

Hi somewhere. Noblegiraffe will probably give you the best advice as she is a teacher.
As a parent, I would start by finding out the exam board he will be doing and then ordering the relevant cgp book. I found with DD1 that she needed to do the work 'little and often' and keep repeating if necessary. Work on the basics first.
See if your school provide your DS with a mymaths logon, and then encourage him to do as much as he can on each topic he covers at school.
I also printed off loads of past papers for my DCs but you won't be at that stage yet.

If Maths doesn't happen at school it will here.

I like your attitude, OP. Go for it! Three AS-level sciences at school, a fourth AS at school that is not too time-consuming, and maths at home seems doable to me.

AS maths isn't very difficult, compared with the maths that he will most likely need at university for any science or even social science subject. Studying AS level maths at home will be very helpful for the A-level physics.

If he gets AS maths, would he then be able to join the A2 group at school?

I am just wondering if I can be cheeky and ask all these maths experts for some advice!!

My son is about to go into year 10 and is not a natural mathematician! He wants me to help him improve as he really wants to achieve a C in two years.

Can anyone recommend a set of books/revision guides that I can work through with him at home?

Thanks muchly!

I think we all agree that engineers and physicists need maths. I am surprised that his school will let him do physics and chemistry without some more maths. (Bit like being allowed to take History and English if you are rubbish at writing essays.)

OP asked for ideas; we have suggested a few other courses of action which would all lead her son towards the engineering career he wants.

titchy I agree that taking 4 A levels at school and a 5th at home seems madness doesn't seem the best way to go about it. It seems a recipe for total delusion. Still if it led to a rethink and starting again with a BTEC/apprenticeship the following year, not all would be lost.

That's why I hoped she would come back and tell us that they had thought about the alternatives.

DS1 was a level 5 at the end of KS2; a level 8 at the end of KS3; achieved an A at the end of year 10 (a year early); a C at AS level and a D at A2.

DS2 was a level 5 at the end of KS2 (teacher assessment 5A); a level 8 at the end of year 9; achieved an A at the start of year 10 (18 months early) and has achieved a C in C1 at the end of year 11.

So both very good at primary and at KS3; good at GCSE, but then it starts to slide .....

Think she's already decided Vulcan - he's going to do 4 A levels at school and the 5th at home, get an A in all of them and become an engineer - madness!

Presumably at Christmas when he's realised his other subjects are suffering it'll be because the school isn't teaching him properly, and nothing to do with the fact that he is spending his all study time on the Maths A level and doesn't have enough time for his other subjects....

hellsbells - exactly the same for my son - the maths 'clicked' when applied.

For OPs son, getting a B in maths may actually be a blessing in disguise, if it forces him to look for alternatives. BAE systems, Network Rail, just to name two, are organisations crying out for engineers and have structured programmes.

I hope she comes back and tells us what has been decided.

Although for saying that, my DH would not have passed A level maths and is an engineer. He did it the hard way with an apprenticeship at 16 and worked his way up. He did the maths as and when it was needed and in his industry still has to do courses and exams now. Maths has clicked with him in an 'applied' way.
This is of course another option for Op's son - but he would have to be motivated to follow that sort of career path, and working and studying at the same time.

LaVolcan - the double maths would make sense!
Totally agree with what you are saying about engineers needing maths - I wasn't trying to muddy the waters!

hellsbells - I think there were proposals for a double maths qualification and something called 'functional maths' for your day to day stuff. Noblegiraffe can tell you all about it. It seemed pretty sensible, in that it would give those wishing or needing to study maths further a more secure foundation and give others tools for day to day living. Gove doesn't seem to listen to sensible suggestions so I have no idea what happened to it.

But as far as OP's son is concerned engineers do need trig, differentiation etc. - plus, these days, computer programming skills for maths or Computer Aided Design packages. They don't particularly need to know why the maths works or prove that it works though - they just need to know that it does.

Just picking up on the bit about levels earlier. Looking through my DDs' old reports, maths is the one that went up very quickly through high school. Both had level 5 in year 6 (although DD1 had a lot of help from me for 2/3 years at that stage - not natural ability). Both were on level 6 at end of year 7 and then level 8 at end of year 9. Both took maths at the end of year 10. DD2 always found it easy, DD1 has 'clicked' now and hopefully will do ok at AS.
This is where we need to think about what the gcse in maths is for. Is it to tell employers that anyone with a C and above has a reasonable grasp at maths? - which it probably does. Or is it, as some people think it should be, a lead into AS level? - this it is not! My DDs' school (state) does early entry at the end of year 10 for those in the top 2 sets so that they can spend year 11 doing extension work in algebra etc so that they are prepared for AS level if they wish to continue. Those below set2 do early entry in November of year 11 if they are ready, so they then spend the rest of year 11 with a choice of further algebra, finance or statistics ....or retaking their gcse to obtain a higher grade.
Gove's plans to remove tiers is not going to work. Employers generally are not concerned whether an employee can do differentiation, trig etc (unless the job requires advanced maths skills), but want a good general knowledge with percentages, being able to know whether a calculation looks in the right 'ball park' (approximating before using the calculator) etc. We don't want to end up with a gcse that is too hard and stops pupils entering the job market or entering uni to do a French degree. But we do need something that allows preparation for A levels in maths/sciences too. So more than 1 qualification is probably needed for maths that would then address these problems.
Sorry for the ramble......

Jella2u

If your son is determined to be an engineer, don't let the nay sayers put him off. Another option could be to do the 3 sciences at school and then take some sort of gap year working, but do A level maths at an FE college or enrol for an OU foundation maths course.

Worth a try though - he's not got anything to lose by seeing if things work out.

He's not going to be allowed to try by his school though. Maybe a serious rethink is in order - if he wants to be an engineer is there a suitable BTec he could enrol for instead?

I got a B at GCSE maths, and the very thought of attempting an A-Level makes me shudder. Especially the thought of trying to get a good grade.

Worth a try though - he's not got anything to lose by seeing if things work out.

I think grades at GCSE can often warp natural ability. I got A*s in science, purely because I have a good memory - I am emphatically not a scientist.

All A-Levels are also not created equal. I had to put about 4 times more work into French than I did to the others, despite languages being the subject I found naturally easiest.

Motivation is going to be key here, I think.