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Original poster

Is it usual to need a grade A GCSE to do A level maths now?

435 replies

Jella2u · 23/08/2013 16:59

Disappointment here too. Son has got 10 GCSE's grade A-C. So what's the prob? You have no prob! Yes I do!!!
He got a grade B, yes that's right, B for Bertie for Maths. The school (which is a comprehensive turned Academy ) will let him do his Physics, Chemistry and Biology, but not Maths for which they say a Grade A is required unless you've clocked up a total of 224 points between the last 2 module papers. Unfortunately his tally was 205. Husband went up suited and booted to the school this morning to plead son's case. Phoned us this afternoon - no go. Have said this to all who got a B. So nothing personal there.
Have tried to contact other schools this afternoon. Needless to say all are shut. Local Authority very helpful and recommended emailing. Are schools running a clearing system that I don't know about? Do tell.
School did offer Statistics as a replacement this morning, but by this afternoon that was off the menu as no-one wants to do it. There are 7 pupils in this maths grade B situation who want to do A level Maths. Strangely the school says Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Maths are the most difficult subjects. So they might be for most people, but what if your child is the one that has had to struggle with French, Music, English Language and bid their time to do the supposed hard four?
We feel he needs A level maths to support science subjects.
Unfortunately, I said we would be back with an answer as to taking up a place with some sort of substitute for Maths before term starts. Every chance if I can't get something sorted fast he will be a well educated NEET!!!
All ideas welcome. Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
PenelopePitstops · 23/08/2013 22:01

You sound insufferable.

Your poor son, does he even want to be an engineer?!

And obviously the school has it all wrong Hmm

noblegiraffe · 23/08/2013 21:56

Try to get the school login for mymaths, it has interactive lessons on the entire core maths syllabus and a lot of the applied modules.

OddBoots · 23/08/2013 21:52

There's nothing wrong with taking an alternative route if you've thought it through and understand and accept what it involves. I hope it works out for you.

Original poster
Jella2u · 23/08/2013 21:49

We don't expect to be loved for by-passing the system.
It will require effort on our part.
Support would be appreciated.
Sorry to upset you.

OP posts:
Sconset · 23/08/2013 21:42

A Level maths is nothing like GCSE maths- GCSE maths is just arithmetic really, A level starts to touch on real mathematics.

If he got a B, he won't do that well at A level without intense coaching, and even then he may not do well, depending where his talents lie.

He could go to a different college, and they may let him do the options he wants, or he can look at doing different subjects, but I agree with the school- they don't want to set him up for failure, they'll want him to be successful, and that means studying his strongest subjects.

What are you waffling on about, paying for it? If a student isn't capable of a course, they're not capable of it- it doesn't matter how much their parents have paid in tax! Hmm Many children do not go on to A Level after GCSE, they aren't academically able enough. He obviously is capable of A level study, but he needs to looking at which subjects he will do well enough in to get to the next stage- his choice of university course.

Original poster
Jella2u · 23/08/2013 21:26

Resolution is coming!!!! Er, Hopefully.

Have spoken to son and husband is now home.

This was my son's suggestion : put in for the Chemistry, Biology and Physics and then...... chose a very soft option for the fourth choice and make no effort in it. The school will think we have acquiesced and jump at this because they'll want the thousands the council will pay for son and at the same time think they are going to keep their exam results up. So they will, but not for that fourth option.

This will give us the time and energy to do maths at home and enter son as an independent candidate. The school runs a continental day from 8.50 to 2.25 (half hour lunch) and is within walking distance.

I will teach him the maths. Fortunately I don't work. I had my son late in life and would be a pensioner - if the Government would let me. I did not realise this what they had lined up for me! We will at least cover all the syllabus and there will be none of this "We don't teach the whole book" nonsense having started a term early. Not good enough.

My son was worried that it was a lot to put on me. No other sensible option. Bite the bullet. No moaning. No groaning. That's life. Get on with it. You ain't going to change the system.

Others have written to check out uni requirements. My husband is the Engineering Manager at a Company with about 450 people working for him. The Universities fit company requirements not the other way. Take note.

My husband who has three degrees does not have Further Maths and says it is not essential at all for Engineering. "What do you want Further Maths for - talking out of their rear end!"

Someone will come back and say why not pay privately. Fees have gone up well beyond inflation, we are getting older and the pension money looms. If we can back up the system, why not run with it. We will firm things up by paying for Christmas/Easter residential revision schools.

All well and good for us by-passing the system, but what about the others forced to put up and shut up or move on? Do you have to accept what you are given. A bit too much of the Oxfam victim meeting Mother Theresa going on. We don't have to be grateful. We've paid for it.

Off to order the very same books he would have studied from.
We will succeed with the B grade even if the school thinks its beyond them!!!! Just hope it's some time before it dawns on them what we're up to.

OP posts:
PatriciaHolm · 23/08/2013 20:36

Ethel, I wasn't implying that at all and I don't think my post suggested that.
It may be that the boy here loves those subjects. However, the OPs post suggests that he will become an engineer like his relatives but doesn't mention anything about his own wishes. If he does end up doing a subject he doesn't love (whatever that subject is)and isn't great at, he will have a miserable couple of years. I did a level maths, further maths and economics, so i do know a bit about what I'm talking about!

ethelb · 23/08/2013 20:31

@patricia I do hate the assumption that people who do maths and science only do it due to parental pressure. Such an anti-intellectual position.

TheSecondComing · 23/08/2013 20:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PatriciaHolm · 23/08/2013 20:07

If you didn't trust the school to get him a top GCSE maths grade, why would you trust them to get him a top A grade? It sounds as if, even with your help, he's just not as good at maths as you would like him to be. Surely it's best to concentrate on subjects he enjoys and will excel at; a level maths sounds like it could be hell for all of you.

Does he actually want to be a engineer or is that the family expectation?

catwithflowers · 23/08/2013 19:47

Noblegiraffe, my son's maths teacher said exactly the same as you when he said he was considering A level maths. As it turned out my son got a B yesterday in his GCSE and immediately dropped the idea of studying maths any further and is taking English lit instead. Smile

longingforsomesleep · 23/08/2013 19:25

Yes, our school requires minimum A at GCSE to do A level maths. For all the reasons quoted above - it's very very hard. DS1 got an A at GCSE at the end of year 10 and has just got a D at A level.

I'd be surprised if they'd let him do Physics without maths though? DS2 was considering Physics but not so keen on maths (despite an A at the beginning of year 10). Physics teacher told him it would be ok to do physics if he did at least AS maths. If he didn't want to do A2 he would be able to teach him the maths required for physics.

creamteas · 23/08/2013 19:24

DS1 got A* in Maths, and struggle terribly at AS level, scraping a E in the end. Was offered a resit, be honestly felt he couldn't do better no matter how many times he took the exam.

The school should be able to see the breakdown of marks for each question, and will know whether or not he has skills in the right areas to take the A level. I would trust their judgement.

Some universities have a foundation year that students without the right A levels can take to access STEM subjects so that might be worth considering.

BackforGood · 23/08/2013 19:21

I have to agree with everyone else, if you don't sail through GCSE with an A* in your maths, you are really going to struggle with A-level. I think it's a good thing that the school are being realistic now rather than letting him drift onto a course they know will be difficult.

OddBoots · 23/08/2013 19:19

The college here let you do A level maths with a B but everyone doing A Level maths has to do a week long intensive 'bridging' summer course.

If he is absolutely fixed on Maths could he study it independently at a distance learning college which doing the other subjects at his school?

noblegiraffe · 23/08/2013 19:16

If a student starts A-level maths with a grade B, years of experience after which we raised our entry criteria to an A suggests that the student will fail, or drop out early on. Even with a tutor. A rare student may do ok, but it is rare.

Now we would only accept a B if they just missed an A and their teacher vouched for them being capable and hardworking enough to cope. It's not fair on the students otherwise to allow them to waste an option on an unsuitable subject. I taught one boy whose parents kicked up a stink, promised tutors, hard work, and this boy worked his socks off and he still got a U. It was so frustrating. He ended up resitting Y12 with a different selection of subjects.

Now that January modules have gone, it's even more important as we won't have that clear marker that a student is struggling from the start of the course.

ethelb · 23/08/2013 19:10

I had to have a predicted a/a* to do maths a level 10 years ago. And there was far less demand for science and maths a levels then too.

basildonbond · 23/08/2013 19:06

At ds's school the requirement for A-level or IB higher level maths is A* - they won't let you do it with 'just' an A as they would obviously not have got to grips with sections of the GCSE curriculum and they need to be absolutely solid for GCSE before embarking in anything harder

Ds got an A* in IGCSE maths but is only doing it at standard level for IB as even though he got close to 100% at GCSE thinks anything above that would be too hard!

koutaliaphobe · 23/08/2013 19:00

Still one way or another he will probably end up being an Engineer as is father and eldest brother.

If engineering is currently his/your aim, I think you need to have a realistic discussion with him about this. Most university courses will require Maths, Physics and at least AS Further Maths, if not the whole A2 - with a B at GCSE then I doubt any school would encourage him to take Further Maths, even if he can sit Maths.

One option is to attempt to teach him the A level yourself, and enter the exams at school as an external candidate. This will cost you, but might be the best way to go about it, particularly if he has lots of gaps in GCSE knowledge which he'll need to address first. Maybe just try the first module, with the aim to sit it in January - if it proves too much you can call it a day then before it affects his summer exams.

SantanaLopez · 23/08/2013 18:54

He is better doing another subject and getting a grade than dismally failing maths. Encouragement is all well and good but A levels are hard.

I'm in Scotland and my old maths teacher used to say that only half of the amount of people who got an A in our GCSE equivalent were suitable for even tackling the Higher paper (and A-levels are more advanced I think).

Beside, a B is not a fail! It is a very good grade and while it's maybe not what he hoped for, it's certainly not the end of the world.

BalloonSlayer · 23/08/2013 18:51

I have heard say re Science subjects such as Chemistry that a B at GCSE results in an E at A Level.

Sounds like a similar story with Maths.

Leeds2 · 23/08/2013 18:45

My experience from DD's friends, as others have said, is that those who don't have an A* at GCSE usually struggle at AS.

Was your son close to an A? Wondering if a remark is a possibility.

SvarteKatterogFlosshatter · 23/08/2013 18:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Loshad · 23/08/2013 18:30

Even if he was in middle set if he was naturally good at maths he probably still would have gained an A or A*. It would be considered very ill advised by most schools to allow a B grade GCSE candidate to do A levels maths, as there is loads of evidence to suggest they will gain a U at best if not giving up part way through the course.

Original poster
Jella2u · 23/08/2013 18:05

I hear all you say and thank you for ideas and time.

I suspect I am the only person in the country with a grade 5 (sign the paper in those distant years ago) CSE in maths and ended up with a degree mainly in maths. I was actually put off by the reaction of the boys when I came first and vowed never to let that happen again. Most of my education happened after school. I would like to think things are better for girls now.

Loads of people could be good at maths they just don't get the encouragement needed.

Yep, I could teach it to him myself and actually have had to do that with some of the GCSE Maths because his set seemed to miss some topics out. I'll never forget his face when he succeeded with the sine and cosine rule having said "You might as well not bother Mum". I was astounded. This is easy peasy stuff as he was shown. The school should have succeeded. There are no excuses.

Anyway, not too keen on making him different from his peer group by teaching him at home. Why shouldn't the school teach him. They get the money from the Taxpayer.

His problem was that he was 2 marks off a Level 5 on leaving primary and got stuck in a boring middle set for 5 years steadily losing confidence. Confidence can grow, but not if you are with negative people who don't really want to teach the subject as often happens in primary schools.

It was good doing maths revision with him we got quite close as we knocked off one topic after another, but if you do it this way you never get the level of practice the top sets have because you're still teaching it. We tackled every formula on the Physics paper and he came home so happy I knew he'd got his A* module before the results arrived. Maths can be done - you just need to know the missing steps they often don't show you in the book. The CGP Maths tutor booklet with DVD is very, very good. They talk you through the missing steps. Many thanks.

I have tried the local college. They answered, but the woman there couldn't get anyone to answer their extension. Helpfully she gave me a mobile number, but the number didn't exist!!!

Still one way or another he will probably end up being an Engineer as is father and eldest brother. Son did very well getting high B from the middle set he was in. Well done boyo!!

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