Is it usual to need a grade A GCSE to do A level maths now?

I am querying the whole physics without maths thing, too, because I understand that it makes it very difficult to get a good grade in physics if you're not a natural mathematician?

But without wanting to add to the stream of scepticism directed towards the OP's son's suitability to do maths AS, it doesn't sound like a dc with level 4 KS2, then middle sets, then a grade B GCSE even with lots of coaching and help at home is a natural mathematician. Sorry, OP.

I think you had some good advice upthread, though, about the algebra content and finding out from school (and through your own testing using that paper in the link?) if he does show some ability in the areas which are more important at advanced level. Maybe he's not an arithmetician but is a more natural at algebra?

Good advice too about not deliberating 'bombing' the 4th AS. It won't help his PS or anything else if his attitude is seen as less than good?

Noble the alternative conclusion would be that only a small % of people have the innate ability in those subjects, hence intelligent people without inbuilt ability will not succeed.
There is NO WAY I would have got A's in many of those soft subjects - it just wouldn't happen, however many hours I put in.
Maybe I just confuse the stats.

Sorry, OP. Hijack over.

No comment on the actual topic, but interested in how the world and results have changed. I got one A at GCSE (physics) went on and did chemistry, Biology and Maths at A-level getting three As and becoming a vet.
My sister got a fist of As at GCSE then a D,E and N at A-level was accpeted by loughborough for the masters in construction engineering with management and is now a dual chartered engineer.

Did he get A/A* GCSE's for his Chemistry/Biology/ Physics because if not he will certainly struggle to do all these subjects as well as Maths at home and another subject, especially as he will want to get AAB at A2 to get on an engineering course at a good Uni.

My DDs school will allow A level with a B, however they all took maths a year early and those considering it at A level have all spent year 11 either doing Addtional maths and/or edexcel level 3 algebra. This allows the school and pupils to decide if they may have the capability for AS level. The school also recommends doing AS maths if taking physics and chemistry at A level. This is a comp turned academy.

At our school most of the subjects require an A at GCSE for A level study.
My subject is a bit more flexible, mainly because we've had issues with GCSE marking in the past.

Jelia, - you seem to have a good handle on what you intend to do,s o that's great progress.

bUT - does the school not require physics students to study some maths? At my DD's school they run extra classes for those doing physics but not doing maths, which would be helpful to you if they did at your school?

And in you're teaching maths to him, make sure you choose the right modules for physics - they need to be, as well as core, the mechanics modules, not statitistcs.

And although your husband employs engineers, thats not quite where your son is at - he needs to study what he needs to get on the engineering course in the first place, - what employers want is premature at this stage. If he's planning a degree in engineering, you really need to look at the admission requirements of the course he wants to do. If he doesn't have maths or further maths at A level, that rules him out of the majority of courses. So you need to make sure he does get that qualification from your teaching!

But also, some unis will not accept students with low grades in their 4 th AS - which you are proposing. Eg I recall that Leeds don't offer to students with less than a B in their 4 th AS ( might just be for some subjects?) So don't assume that putting no effort into an AS will be OK, is all I'm saying. Better not to do it at all and get school to accept that he is doing his 4 th subject independently.

I hope you don't mind me replying as I don't know how helpful this will be. When I did my A Levels (over a decade ago, now, so may be too out of date, but we did do the AS system that's current now), my mum decided to teach me the maths for AS. I had an A* at GCSE, but I'd struggled to get it (btw, you must've known the school requires an A not a B ... any chance of a remark?). Mum has a doctorate in maths and tutors adults in it. It was still extremely hard going, not least because it takes longer than you might think to learn the requirements of a syllabus.

You're saying that you think of maths in terms of 'steps' and found the booklet useful. Look, sorry if I am getting this completely wrong - but I think he might struggle to get through A Level if he's doing it by rote and learning from the booklet. He needs to understand the concepts, not in terms of 'step 1 and step 2', but in terms of thinking through what he's doing and why. Excuse me if this is obvious and you'd been planning to change the teaching method anyway.

Anyhow - I won't blame my mum at all. She gets brilliant results tutoring other people, when they're doing the subject properly and not just through lessons on top of four other subjects (one of her pupils got 100% in the A Level module mum taught her this year). But I got a C at AS. And that is fine, because I do not want to be an engineer and I dropped it at that point.

I know this is just an anecdote, but I really don't think it's as easy to teach someone yourself, without knowing the syllabus, while he's trying to do 3/4 other subjects, as you might think.

Not bothering with his fourth subject may effect your sons personal statement. Is he able to just take 3 A's at school.

Have you also considered the implications of taking a subject and putting no effort in? Will he turn up to lessons? Take notes? Do homework? If yes, he's effectively sitting 5 subjects. If no, he will have to deal with a pissed off teacher, a pissed off head of sixth form and a potential problem when they come to write his UCAS reference.

Would the school let him redo the GSCE while starting the AS? I agree with the others, it will be hard.

Perhaps he just isn't cut out for it? You and your husband obviously have an aptitude for maths, and its easy to think a subject can be easily taught when you find it easy yourself. However, you say you did extensive work with him and he still got a B, it really doesn't sound ideal. I didn't ever have to work in maths -it was all self evident to me. I sailed through maths gcse having just looked briefly at a revision booklet, never having to work in lessons and finishing homework in seconds.

However I found maths A level hard as I suddenly had to actually work at it!

As a teacher I wouldn't advise maths A Level to a student with a B and I'd worry in your case that should your son not manage it he will feel a lot of guilt and pressure not to let you down.

As for the fourth AS. Why on earth not work for it? Its often advised to do something complimentary for a fourth.

It sounds oddly as if you blame teachers for results and not the students aptitude or effort.

Jellla2u If that is the course your son wants to take, then it is worth a try.

I suggest psychology for a 4th A level if it will fit, not because it is especially soft, but because there is some overlap with biology, and his chemistry will also help. It is also accepted as a science A level by universities (so is geography). It's also something that won't completely bore him if he has an interest in biology. It's not too time intensive, either.

Please do bare in mind that all his qualifications must go on his university aplication, so if he gets 3 good AS and 2 poor ones, that will look much worse than 3 good AS and 1 average one. 5 average AS grades will look worst of all, and you should try and avoid this happening.

I also think you should agree a point in advance where you/he are willing to accept he has taken too much on. He sounds like he may not be a natural mathematician (I don't mean this as an insult, I'm not either) and there may come a point when you/he decide the effort is reducing his chances of success in other AS levels/A levels.

Finally, this may cause some issues with getting predicted grades from the school. They may be unwilling to predict a grade for maths, as they are not teaching it. Universities are unlikely to accept a grade predicted by his mother. Therefore, you may have to accept his predicted grade for maths will be whatever he got at AS, and the school are unwilling to predict a grade up (which they may do for other subjects).

What a strange reply.
You've asked a question, to which there has been a similar answer from most people - that actually the school are right to take such a stand, and that there is a massive jump from GCSE to A level for a lot of subjects, but particularly for maths, which is reputed to be one of the most difficult jumps to make. Then you just come back with that weird load of gobblygook.
Begs the question - why ask MN in the first place as you and your husband clearly know so much better than every other poster, plus the staff at your ds's school ?

I fail to see how you are "bypassing the system"

Sending him to an independent school or college would be doing that, and I can tell you for one, they won't be letting him do maths A level with a B at GCSE!

My dm tutors maths. Round her some of the schools do accept a grade B for A level maths. But in her knowledge in the years she has been doing it (20+ years) there has been one who had manage to achieve a grade in A level from that point. (and we're not looking at her pupils there, she knows it from contacts)
And he admitted he had mucked around for 5 years at secondary, the first thing he had to learn was all his missing knowledge from GCSE with intensive tutoring, which if he hadn't been determined he wouldn't have managed it.

As a general rule dm feels it is unfair to accept someone onto A-level from a B as it gives them unrealistic hope-often they think their GCSE result= Alevel result and are devasted to find that isn't the case.

In all honesty unless you feel he didnt work at GCSE then I doubt he will manage it, and he may well struggle at Physics. You needed quite a bit of A-level maths to survive at A-level physics when I did it. He'd probably be okay with Chemistry, and Biology though.

Does he want to do engineering or are you just assuming? because as someone further up the thread said, they will almost certainly require maths, and if they accept him without maths he may have to do major catchup of maths and possible further maths in his first term.

Slightly OT but I'm surprised he is able to do Physics A level without Maths to at least AS level?

Jella - what was your son predicted for maths? If he was predicted an A*/A then perhaps the exam was a blip and he does have the ability.

I assume this was the case as if he had been predicted a B I presume you would have got involved and tried to improve his maths skills during his GCSE course.

Next, science a-levels are officially harder

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/official-some-alevel-subjects-are-harder-than-others-857643.html

Incidentally, so is general studies!

Weird?
OP not sure why you posted on here? You already had your agenda sorted.

Can we stop with all this science is hard, btw. It depends on the way your brain is wired.

Afaic, I picked the easiest A'levels FOR ME - biology, physics, chem and maths (in the days when 3 was the norm). I struggled more with the general studies than any of the others.

You have mentioned engineering. What type?
I did science, and then a MSc which could realistically be labelled "Chem Eng for non engineers"
I now work on the science side of a massive manufacturing firm, and regularly plan and carry out trials on the plant (been to africa and asia to work on factories there also). If Chemistry / chem eng is the preference, this could be an alternative. I was at the lack of mathematical knowledge the chemistry undergrads had 15 years ago. It might have changed.

I think you have a great plan, and are fortunate enough to have the time and skills to carry it out. If you son is determined to do it, and will put in the work and can succeed, it will set him up for overcoming adversity later in life. I hope he is very successful

Good Luck!

I'd worry, btw that by flogging the maths in his spare time, you'd be taking valuable study time away from his other, very difficult A-levels and maybe risking him flunking them all.

This link would be useful, the school allows students to take A-level with a B, so long as they pass an entrance exam. There are some practice questions for the entrance exam so you could use these to assess your DS and see how his algebra is.

www.haydonschool.com/hy/content/download/1094/4208/file/A-Level+Maths+Entrance+Exam+Information.pdf