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Any other AS DC struggling with GCSE science mark scheme because of pragmatics? Is it discriminatory?

133 replies

HisMum4now · 24/07/2013 14:01

DS has a statement because of his AS, specific language impairment and pragmatic difficulties. He is going into Y11 and doing relatively well in his mock GCSEs. He is really good at maths and sciences. He understands the science, but struggles to score marks because of theory of mind and pragmatics.

If you ask him explicit specific questions he would explain everything giving specialist terminology. But the questions in the exam papers are wage, indirect and convoluted. The marking scheme looks completely illogical, arbitrary to DS. From his point of view he answered correctly the question asked, but within the explicit question there were two other hidden questions and he really couldn't see them - how is he supposed to guess which other questions he is supposed to answer? There are too many other questions he could comment on, but these don't logically follow from the question asked on paper. He feels it is unfair.

For example:
Question: "Why radiator is painted black?"
DS answer: "Because black surfaces are better emitters of infrared radiation then light surfaces"
Marks: 1 out of 3. He needed to add "so higher rate of energy transfer" For DS this is self evident and contained within his answer "better emitters". He would never guess to add this. So he scores about a third of the marks!

Another example:
Question: "How would gas and nuclear power stations be used to meet the demand for electricity within 24 hours?"
DS answer: "The nuclear power station is used for baseline demand. The gas station is used to generate extra power when demand increases"
Mark: 2 out of 3. He needed to add "because of short start up time". But the question was How, not Why!

Often out of many possible valid answers the examiner only gives marks for one narrow specific answer that looks arbitrary, random to DS (even to me) in relation to the question asked. For example:

Question: "Vaccination against measles virus will not protect the child against rubella virus. Why?"
DS?s answer: "Because measles and rubella are different pathogens"
Marks: zero... not correct ???
I don't even know what the "correct" answer is but nothing in the way the question is articulated suggests that other answer. I can see what DS means by arbitrary and random mark scheme.

DS's problem is not with knowledge and understanding, but with guessing what the examiner wants. Theory of mind.

DS works very hard - 5 hours of homework and revision every day. Most of this time is dedicated to getting sense of pragmatics and mark schemes. However it doesn?t pay off. It looks to me that with exam papers like these higher marks are just unattainable for ASD DS because of pragmatic bias built in the questions.

Is DS the only one having this problem?
What can be done?

OP posts:
RussiansOnTheSpree · 29/07/2013 08:20

Many many kids with SEN are now told my Agove and his minions that they don't have SEN - because they are too bright and do too well on the tests even with their SEN. The DfE doesn't care that they would do even better without their SEN. They also believe that kids with SEN such as dyspraxia shouldn't be getting As, that As aren't for kids like them - or at least, this was what we were told when Dd1 was re-evaluated before her GCSE exams - the Ed Psych doing the re-evaluation had recently been at a big meeting with DfE reps, where Ed psychs were trying to explain to the reps why it ws so wrong to be tightening up the rules in the way they have and why it was discriminatory to A* SEN kids - and that was what they were told. Now, maybe it was just that guy. But, in the light of the fact that the way they are handling things now is clearly discriminatory against the brightest SEN kids - I don't think it is just that one guy.

Kids in posh schools still seem to end up with the appropriate support and concessions though - as discussed in many threads on here. So it's not all kids with SEN that are being targeted. Just state school kids with SEN. Funny that.

As for science, specifically - ever since they introduced CAs science has been clearly discriminatory against kids with dyspraxia. :(

bruffin · 29/07/2013 00:02

I'm talking away and if you look at all the papers they took in 2012 one paper is 65% the other two papers are around 80%. It is impossible to get an A* overall by getting 65%.
There are so many Sen it's possible to please everyone, by favoring one Sen you may be biased against others. As I said my D's, SEN causes him to lose marks, he often misreads math's papers and makes silly mistakes.

NoSelfControl · 28/07/2013 22:39

To be honest I don't think the exam boards would have any personal info about the students at all - this sounds awful but when we mark they are just a number (but I promise you it is taken very seriously). It would be up to the individual centre to apply for any special considerations. From a teaching point of view I never have to supply the exam boards with any SEN info. Your DS sounds like he will get brilliant grades - A coursework mark plus hitting A and A in mocks etc plus having such a caring parent to help support with all of the exams now at the end of year 11. Gove may be a massive wanker but I do believe that the kids that deserve the high grades will get them (this may be the vino talking!). Good luck with everything, PM me if you need anything for your DS I have loads of revision stuff if he finds any particular area tricky

HisMum4now · 28/07/2013 22:05

Do they look how different SEN DC answer the questions before finalizing the mark scheme? They should consider and over quota of various SEN groups in their calibration.

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HisMum4now · 28/07/2013 22:02

Thank you NoSelfControl for your insight.

DS used to score level 8a in year 9 and scored A is tests in year 10. However with the higher grade boundaries being pushed by Gove, the mock exams were hit and miss with mostly A and one A. DS revises very hard and spends so much time going over and over the past papers and mark schemes that I am worried he hit a wall. All of the marks he looses are due to pragmatics. The problem is he can't derive any systematic reusable wisdom from the mark scheme. He doesn't seem to be getting any coaching on exam technique, the grammar school he is going to probably thinks it is beneath them.

On the CA he scored 47 out of 50 with a lot of preparation at home. The exams questions are obviously unpredictable.

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Whathaveiforgottentoday · 28/07/2013 21:52

Bruffin, the pass marks have been very low for some higher papers in aqa science. C grade was 12/60 for a C and 21/60 for a B 'for the core physics paper last jan so 36/60 very plausible for an a*.
Personally think its silly, need to make the paper more straight forward and make pass marks higher.

HisMum4now · 28/07/2013 21:34

Bruffin, we are probably talking about different exam boards. The total number of marks per AQA paper is 60...

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HisMum4now · 28/07/2013 21:33

I totally agree that the style of questions would affect different Dc with different learning styles differently, yet with a very real impact. I totally take on board your concerns about dyslexic Dc, as you are the experts.

I am less clear what Bruffin means with the example of the other AS boy. He and his mum are not here to speak on his behalf. Only they really know how he is affected and what does it take them to get those A*. Science prizes supposedly are not given for pragmatics, so there is no reason why bright AS DC wouldn't get prizes. My DS is 98% in ability and does well in a grammar school. The problem I am referring to cannot be trivialized down to the level of ability.

I also find it upsetting when people talk on behalf of other DC with disabilities telling they don't have any problems and are just dense and lazy. This is a very convenient assumption to maintain flawed exam papers.

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NoSelfControl · 28/07/2013 21:14

The OP is correct regarding grade boundaries being low - AQA Chemistry Higher Paper Jan 2013 students needed 29/60 for an A and only 9/60 for a D. This is then converted to UMS where 90 is an A*, 80 is an A etc.
I examine Science GCSE Higher papers for both of the major exam boards as well as being a full time teacher. I have found it soooooo helpful for my classes and for the department in general. I do think some of the questions are misleading but it reassures me that the mark scheme is only finalised after hundreds (thousands? - I'm not important enough to be involved in this!) of papers are looked at so the final mark scheme does take into account the many strange (but correct) answers that students may give. You are also allowed to use discretion - so if a student does give an A Level style answer you can definitely give them credit (providing it is correct of course). For the most part I have found with my students that most of them drop marks by not reading the question properly (describing not explaining etc) and when we go through it afterwards they kick themselves for not getting the answer correct. Also, similar to your DS they don't quite take the answer far enough - the vaccination question you mentioned being the classic example (this was in our mock this year - loads got it "wrong"). I always say to the students "So what?" - yes, different pathogens so what does that mean? You won't lose any marks for writing more than you think is necessary (unless the additional info contains major scientific errors or contradictions).
Sorry - what a ramble! The best advice as a teacher and an examiner I can give is keep on with the revision, underline the action words in the question (as someone else suggested I think - describe, explain, evaluate) and take the time to really read all of the information given in the questions (sounds so obvious but so many students are so keen to get going they miss easy marks) and don't get too stressed over missing a few marks as rightly or wrongly the grade boundaries are fairly low.

If your DS has a controlled assessment coming up for science it may be worth talking to the school about preparing him properly for that - a good CA mark may take the pressure off (I also moderate one exam board and teach the other so happy to give advice!)

Copthallresident · 28/07/2013 21:10

That is absolutely the case Bruffin. having a SpLD isn't a particular learning difficulty or a particular spectrum of problems, it is a range of problems on a spectrum and being ASD is on that spectrum. I have two children with SpLDs, both Dyslexic and one also has problems that would label Dyspraxia. One has two MFLs AT A at GCSE but she has a photographic memory, possibly developed to compensate for an auditory memory below the tenth percentile. DD2 struggled with one MFL and scored A/ A, with a lot of hard work memorising vocab, on everything but the coursework which required her to memorise large tracts of French to regurgitate in test conditions, she got a D and it dragged her down to a B. Both were very motivated to learn languages because we have lived overseas.

The irony of all this is that whilst Gove et al believe that they have to limit the arrangements to level the playing field for our DCs, the MoD are apparently going out of their way to recruit and facilitate the working world for those with SpLDs because they have particular strengths to offer in code breaking and intelligence work. Growing up as a Dyslexic in the 70s was difficult and whilst I developed coping strategies I always did wonder why I could be so "stupid" some of the time and so ahead of the thinking on others. However a mediocre performance at O level and to a lesser extent A level didn't stop me getting to a good university where my thinking skills came into their own. I worry Gove could deny those chances to a new gereation of those with SpLDs.

bruffin · 28/07/2013 19:37

won not one

bruffin · 28/07/2013 19:33

To get A you need to score as little as 36% of marks according to some grades boundaries.*

No you don't, that's complete nonsense, for science papers its around 80% , 36% wouldn't get you a D let alone an A star. The lowest i could find for 2012 was a chemistry paper which was 29/36 which 80% and one of the physics papers was 94%. 34/36.

He took triple and got 12 a* for his gcses. My son has been in his class since yr 7 and i can tell you he doesnt struggle with science exams and also has one every prize going for sciences.

Dyslexia doesnt stop you learning a language, the style of MFL exam stops my DS from getting decent marks in mfl. Other dyslexics can do ok, just as my ds's friend with aspergers does really well in science exams (and every other exam he takes) whereas others may struggle. Every child is different even within the same diagnosis.

HisMum4now · 28/07/2013 18:58

Sorry, I think it was 36 marks out of 60 - just over half of the answers correct and you get an A* Shock

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HisMum4now · 28/07/2013 18:55

Boffin, how do you know he never had problems? Did he read this thread and said he can't relate to this?

How much extra effort and extra coaching did it take him at the expense of learning other skills and maybe getting A* in other subjects? Was it single science or triple? Those taking triple science are penalized three times.

To get A you need to score as little as 36% of marks according to some grades boundaries. It is possible to score A without answering any of the tricky pragmatic questions. The point is, had he lost one more mark, he could have had an A. If grade boundaries go up - which is happening under pressure from government, AS Dc will be left stranded in A territory. This means he wouldn't be able to go to some universities. Aspies will always loose more marks that non aspies because of pragmatics.

I am sorry I don't know enough about dyslexia to comment on your DC difficulty with MFL exam. Do you mean he knows his MFL, can read, write and speak well, just can't do exams? Or is Dyslexia a barrier to learn a language?

The ability to read, speak and write in the language is the skill being supposedly tested in an MFL exam. In the science exam, pragmatics is not the skill being tested. AS is not a barrier to learn science.

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bruffin · 28/07/2013 18:22

But everyone is different, one of my dS's friends has aspergers and has never had a problem with science exams and got all A* s and is doing well in his A levels. My Ds is dyslexic and struggled with MFL exams because he can't memorise long tracts which is basically what happens in modern mfl exams. His dyslexia does affect his overall score despite him getting extra time.

HisMum4now · 28/07/2013 16:47

You can't structure science questions the same way as history or politics questions. Unlike in politics, in science their is a right and a wrong answer. The thinking method is totally different. There is the scientific method and there is a language of science - mathematics. Woolly questions test the wrong skills. The skills that lead to success in a science career are totally different to the skills and way of thinking in politics, journalism or teaching.

People who filter their thought process through the lens of how other people will receive their ideas are less likely to discover that Earth is not flat.

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HisMum4now · 28/07/2013 16:36

Yes, I understand that it is not down to individual teachers. Teachers don't necessarily approve of the questions individually or even collectively as I doubt they voted for the questions. However collectively the teachers do get some input in the system. Aren't the examiners former teachers? The teachers are closer to students and should develop some awareness of the problem and do something. Many comments just deny the problem and put the onus on the student to fix it.

I would expect the exam papers to be validated somehow. However I wonder whether the validation method would stand to scrutiny if the people who validated the questions share the same set of beliefs and assumptions as the people who designed them.

  • Did they run a correctly designed pilot?
  • Did they have and expert panel of scientists (those who really do science)?
  • Did they have an expert panel of people on autistic spectrum who know their science to see how they react to those questions?
  • Did they evaluate the impact of these questions on minorities with different special needs?
  • Did they evaluate the impact on anyone - why grade boundaries are so low and why so many students don't get good GCSEs?
  • Did they test any other hypothesis then poor teaching, and lazy pupils?

The system shouldn't have a built in bias against a particular set of disabilities.

It is very easy to articulate better defined questions, they are already doing this to some extent in IGCSEs. In many countries they do oral exams. Teachers can follow-up with very difficult non leading questions to check whether DC understand and can apply the knowledge vs just guessing what examiner wants. Disabled students already have exam arrangements, why not pilot arrangements that work?

OP posts:
bruffin · 28/07/2013 15:56

Sorry I meant electrolysis not hydrolysis.

Copthallresident · 28/07/2013 13:46

bruffin Well here I am with a grade 1 (then the highest grade) O level in Physics with Chemistry (1973) and I haven't a clue what you are talking about, unlike in Maths where a Grade 1 has been the basis for me to pick up the Maths I needed to pass master's modules in statistics, modelling and micro economics as well as in a business career.

Open ended questions like, in my O level History, "What factors led to the passing of the Reform Acts" which required by way of answer simply a list of parliamentary and political processes and actions. No analysis of the economic and social context, or even the wider political context, no real understanding of why reform happened at that point in our History in contrast to what would be asked now, To what extent was the 1832 Reform Act a turning point?

HisMum4now · 28/07/2013 13:41

JCQ regulation is also not fit for purpose, it is a very bland instrument that doesn't offer the right adaptation for the problem. The exam arrangements do not address the nature of disadvantage. Extra time is good for some, but will not solve all the problems.

The basis is flawed, because if extra time is given only for slow processing, one could argue it gives a leg up for those with low ability and leaves those with high ability and specific difficulties at a disadvantage.

By law the definition of a reasonable adjustment is that it should be effective.

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Whathaveiforgottentoday · 28/07/2013 13:35

OP, Can I point out that teachers do not set the exam, exam boards do this. 'Teachers' get as frustrated as you do and if the teachers do practise test in class and mark to the mark scheme it's so the students are prepared.
However I would say writing exams is not easy and exams mark schemes must be able to ensure consistency so all examiners mark to the same standard, soprocedures are very rigorous. In doing this sometimes it is difficult to cover all possible interpretations. Following an exam the senior team do mark and modify the mark scheme in cases where students have interpreted questions in a different but equally correct way to ensure fairness.
A great deal of students underestimate the level of detail required in and this is by far the most common reason for losing marks. This continues at at A level. Another common problem is where a topic is covered at ks3 and gcse, a simplistic answer just using ks3 knowledge often doesn't have the detail to gain marks at gsce. Using correct terminology is important and is an important skills. Most mark schemes do accept that if the student can fully explain without the key word than they will be given credit for the answer.
As an examiner, I do contact my team leader regularly while I'm marking to clarify on any any answers that I feel could be given credit but are not given on the mark scheme. This is just considered good practise for examiners.
However , I will say again that I don't disagree with your concerns and would like to see papers with greater clarity enabling students to show what they know, rather than just showing they can answer exam questions.

HisMum4now · 28/07/2013 13:29

could write

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HisMum4now · 28/07/2013 13:28

Obviousely we can't return to O levels. I think they were more structured and students could right more in open questions, so the teachers had some discretion to judge whether students understood the topic.

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bruffin · 28/07/2013 13:13

Olevel chemistry wasn't a regurgitation of memory. in 1979 at least 35% of the paper was hydrolysis and calculations.

Copthallresident · 28/07/2013 12:54

Sad to see some of the looking back at O levels through rose tinted specs here. When I took them in the 70s they were complete tests of regurgitation, especially my weird amalgam O level Physics with Chemistry. The teachers at our direct grant grammar had so little regard for their academic worth that they didn't regard it as worthwhile sitting them in our A level subjects, instead we progressed straight to the A level course. There was a reason Sir Keith Joseph ditched them.

in my own subject, History my DDS have had a chance to develop historical skills that I didn't have a chance to gain and utilise until A level and even university. There is a need to develop GCSEs to meet the needs of employers and universities in the 21st century, in conjunction with them and the educational professionals. What a shame to have lost that opportunity to the narrow ideas of a few people who have gained temporary power at the DofE.