Are grammar schools better for above average children?

">That there should be different age transfers available to Grammar Schools if it is the right school for the pupil."

I think that's called a comprehensive school, isn't it?

That there should be different age transfers available to Grammar Schools if it is the right school for the pupil.

yes, ideally...but how would that work in practice? To allow that, the GS would presumably have to turn away people for whom it is right at 11 (given that they are always oversubscribed). DDs GS has had some pupils transfer in from other local schools, but I think that this could only be possible because a few of the original cohort have moved elsewhere (only one has transferred out because she was finding it too hard).

That there should be different age transfers available to Grammar Schools if it is the right school for the pupil.

Forehead. Although i believe very much in Grammar Schools i can accept that different people mature and develop at different ages whether 11 is to young i dont know, what i do know is that they should be different ages to transfer if a Grammar School becomes the right school for a particular child and pupils who are struggling at the Grammar School should be able to transfer to the right school without any stigma or embarrsment. Grammar Schools should not be about social status and class and should only be about teaching the subjects at a different pace . Because of the stupid target of trying to get 40% of kids going to University, Grammar Schools were they exist have become honey pots to the aspirational and pushy, partly out of fear that the COMPREHENSIVES/HIGH SCHOOLS will not enable their DCs to access University. A lot of the problems of low aspiration and achievement in these COMP/HIGH Schools are created by the troublesome 5% of pupils who infect many pupils in to thinking its un cool to be bright and therefore become C/B students when in the right enviroment they could be A students. Even though the bright students are separated in sets from the troublesome 5% their influence still spreads though the school and the kids who are not totally focused on their study"s are still infected by them.

Good post Downstairs.
I have no problem with Grammar schools.
However, I do feel that 11 is definitely too young
to decide.
My dsis was put in the bottom sets at school.
At about 13 years old she pulled her socks up and now has
a PHD.
People develop at different rates. A child who was thought of as academic at 11, may not be the same at 14.
One must also remember, that even if your child passes the 11 plus with flying colours a very academic grammar school may not be right for them. They may in fact benefit from attending a school which is less pressurised. Alternatively, there may be those who just scraped the 11 plus, but would thrive at a grammar school.
I think it is vital that students look at their child as an individual and decide what is right for them.
However, I do accept that I am fortunate to live in an area which has a decent Catholic school and therefore I do not feel the pressure to get a grammar school place for my kids.
.

You mean the sort of town where everbodys been but nobody has been. JUST A TRANSIT TOWN!

that is the exact reason why Dover is ........

well Dover

I lived there for a while.

I have been on the ferry quite a few times though and its a lot faster than the crossing from ramsgate but not as quick as the tunnel from folkestone. HA HA HA.

yes definitely

Harris area bit like Marmite .... as is Dover

I dont know Dover other than looking at statistics and i was actually saying that the harris academy is only producing average results with an above average cohort so were actually not doing very well.

Beatback
How well do you know Dover? I very much doubt that Harris would be able to work their magic there. Especially with the kids split between different schools.

ON a current thread about HARRIS ACADEMIES it says despite having a cohort not dissimilar from the Dover Grammar Schools achieves average results so perhaps the professionals should be allowed to put that right without the ego of the "OWNER OF THE SCHOOL" .

And then after the philantropists have built the schools let the professionals run them the correct way not in the ego centric way of themselves.

Talkinpeace. One of the main problems for SWAN VALLEY and other Schools like them is even by changing their names people will always remember how bad they were 20 or 30 years ago, and no matter what they do the stigma will always remain the same. Another problem for SWAN VALLEY in particular is that the kids who dont pass For/choose WILLMINGTON/DARTFORD GRAMMAR will have SWAN VALLEY as 3rd choice so the aspriational parents will choose LEIGH/ DARTFORD SCIENCE COLLEGE meaning that the only kids SWAN VALLEY can attract are kids from families who dont value education or parents that have had negative experiences from their own education. One way schools like SWAN VALLEY could improve their image is being very strong on Uniform and behaviour outside the school, because one thing i have learnt in life is you become like your surrondings and if the kids go to school thinking there going to a dump and whats the point of even looking half smart the standards will always drop. If pupils entering schools like SWAN VALLEY could believe that their were not entering a dump in their own minds that surely would be a positive start. If OFSTED could set realistic targets for these Schools in SWAN VALLEY"s case maybe 30% 5 A TOC Maths English and not expect them to straight away get 50% plus. It is very sad that the perception in the uk that if the School was a sports College the academic side would be poor and this is only the case in the state sector, because all the best public schools set great store in their sporting achievements and were massively over repersented in the medals at the Olympics and the State Schools that did have ex pupils who won medals were not the SWAN VALLEY"s. Another way things could be improved is if philanthropists started building schools not for their own egos like "LORD HARRIS CARPETRIGHT" REG VARDY JUST SO HE CAN PREACH CREATIONISM" but because their wanted to put back some of their wealth in to society and not to ask anything for it other than for the common good. One of the U.Ks greatest philantropists was WILLIAM MORRIS founder of Morris Cars who though his lifetime gave away over £30 million pounds the equivalent to over £1 BILLION POUNDS TODAY ,and created amonst many things the NUFFIELD FOUNDATION. He was not looking for an ego boost just to make things better for the common good.

absolutely : its a secondary modern - it IS one of the sink schools you referred to up thread and "parental choice" reinforces that vicious spiral every year

Talkinpeace. It could be that SWAN VALLEY School is suffering because two local Schools LEIGH TECHNOLOGY and DARTFORD SCIENCE COLLEGE. where Leigh Technology College/ Dartford Science 61/52% 5 A TO C Maths and English respectively.

Academies - at least Gove style - have a lot more to do with breaking the power of LEAs than anything to do with education.

Talkinpeace. So the new fad is Academy status god knows in 3 years Acadamy status will be where specialism is now. 1988 I was in the first year to take G.C.S.Es and I had to take them at a college because my school would not let me take any. That was how bad Education was then if you had special needs. But enough of me moaning!

beatback
there are no specialist schools any more other than just in name : there has been no money for specialisms for a couple of years
and actually becoming a sports college will drive the academic even further away

1988 GCSE : youngster

Secondary schools achieve excellent results with great teaching staff! Very well equipped with high standards expected of both pupils and staff.

It was 1988 so with "Grade Inflation" i can say with some belief it would be an A* Today HA HA HA.

Try to specalize in becoming a sports college. My grade E G.C.S.E English Grammar letting me down SORRY.

TALKINPEACE. Ive just looked at SWAN VALLEY School is that SWANSCOME? 24% 5 A TO C Maths and English 22.9% F.S.M so high but the School is going in the wrong direction 2010/2011 it had 34/35% 5 A TO C respectively. Maybe the School could do with a new head or perhaps trying to specalize in perhaps a sports college and try to establish relationships with local football and other sport clubs and maybe that could encourage parents with middle abilty DCs to apply there.