Are grammar schools better for above average children?

Talkinpeace. I think its right that some advantage should be given to the DC from the Comprehensive. It has to be measured and not blatent, "positive discrimination" because in the end that does not benefit anyone especially the DC from the Comprehensive.

But isn't that the same as saying that a First from Oxbridge is the same as a First from Thames Valley?

no, but DC with A* from a comp would do ....

Would DC with A from a superselective have an advantage vs a DC with A from bog standards grammar taking top 30% in university admissions?

Russians
"Also, I believe people travel very long distances for Tiffins (one of which has now established a catchment, right? Local places for local people?) and for CRGS. And for Pates."

There's no arguing with the position CRGS occupies in the league table, but people also travel vast distances to get to that other hallowed superselective school in Colchester - namely Colchester County High School. There's girls from London in DD's class and I suspect that the geographical areas students travel from, would be pretty comparable in the two schools. At induction, a prominent member of staff took great pains to express her utter surprise incredulity at how far away from ColCHS some girls lived.
Not really relevant but I wanted to mention it en passant.

Grimma I don't think schools ask, do they

about feasibility of travel? DDs school (and the equivalent boy's GS) does, for the residual places. We're near the bus route (the school bus is the social club, no hardship) - if we weren't, it wouldn't have worked.

I am very sorry i have given you the wrong impression of me.

Afternoon Talkinpeace. I have decided to be polite to everybody now.

I am not a better or worse person than anybody just equal i have not selected anybody as a victim. I do not pick on anybody and i am not a TROLL . I am always on this site because i like talking to people who have far greater Academic qualifactions and knowledge, partly because i never had the chance/confidence or abilty to access higher education. Although i have had a very comfortable life. but please excuse my confrontational way of putting things across, that was the way i got noticed having been a victim at school. I am very sorry i have giving you the wrong impression of me.

just got back in from work
Russians
a very arty friend of DDs is doing English Lang, English Lit, Double Science, single Maths, History, Art, RE, French, Spanish

Grimma
the school is 300 per year intake - absolutely standard for Hampshire and many other counties

I find the thought of the carbon footprint of kids doing 30 miles each way to school horrific

Beatback
chillax. Kent is an anomaly. The rest of the country tries not to think about them (other than on Mumsnet)

Beat I didn't go to Oxford, I went to Cambridge. I am sure you are a better person than me in every respect. In the light of that I'd prefer it if you didn't shout at me or indeed berate me in any way before. You appear to have selected me as your new 'victim' since the last one name changed. I won't stand for it as long as she did. Or indeed, for any time at all.

Do you want me to name the school.

Russians. Do you want me to mame the school so you can check the Dept of Educations definition of the school that my newphew attends. Also Russian why where you so demeaning to me when i was offering you a compliment on your achievement in getting to Oxford and if your Dyspraxia has never been a problem to you than you are "Super Human" and believe me i might not have the Academic Qualifactions or Academic IQ as you but believe me in many other ways i would be the equal of you.

Grimma I don't think schools ask, do they? My DD1 has about a 60 mile round trip every day. She loves her bus time. It enables her to work on her relationship with her ipod. I adore the amount of travel I do for the same reason.

Some GSs seem to manage very well with the 25% approach, so I wouldn't get too worried. (The Colyton place everyone seems to mention on GS threads says 'we offer a selective education to students in the top 25% of the ability range' - maybe that doesn't accurately reflect their actual intake but evidently not beneath consideration.)

Well Russians he took the 11+ and passed it and its a state school so i guess its called a "Secondary Modern". Granted it only gets 9% AAB at A level so is not in the Top 50 Grammars in the Country and 95% A* To C Maths and English but is located in a fully selective L.E.A it is 100% a Grammar School maybe not a Super Selective top 3 to 5% of abilty.

But presumably there is some practical limit in reality of how far the parents are willing to have their kid travel (or the school will allow)?

Also, I believe people travel very long distances for Tiffins (one of which has now established a catchment, right? Local places for local people?) and for CRGS. And for Pates.

But yes, it probably wouldn't work everywhere. Which is a shame but there you go. It would never happen anyway so no harm in speculating what would be the optimum model.

Grimma Not the one my DD1 goes to.

Most (maybe not all, not sure) 'superselectives' are in fairly densely populated areas. My DDs 'normal' GS has a large catchment (plus some residual places) which makes it as big as you'd want a kid to travel every day. (It gets excellent results BTW.)

swing Exactly.

Grimma - sorry, catching up. Superselectives cover humungous areas, they don't have defined catchments.

Grimma By testing. At 11.

Beat Dyspraxia is a medically/ed psych diagnosed condition. It does not mean that you shout at everyone on the internet, nor that you struggle with grammar - it's not an excuse for either of those things, either. And the school that you describe doesn't sound like a grammar school to me, really...

One of my close friend's DD goes to one of those top Kent grammar school. We live in a non grammar school county and so my DD goes to the local comprehensive. They finished primary school with similar levels and 2 years on....my DD actually has higher levels than her girl and yet I don't feel my DD is challenged enough in her school. From what my friend tells me, I really can't see that much difference between her DD's lessons and mine who is in top sets classes for all set subjects.

If we lived in Kent, I would have pushed for my DD to go to grammar school for the reason that this is where the top pupils go, but Kent don't have more academic children than other county and local comprehensive still have to cater for their local academic children, so I really don't think it make that much of a difference.

Agree with the post on page 1 by 'skiing gardener' my experience was the same and I do feel that if you can a grammar school education pays dividends in the long term.
I went from infant/junior being mainly left to get on with it just because I could to state grammar where I found that I could be stretched and I
also found that I was not as bright as I thought I was !!