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Original poster

Anyone have experience with the efa for maladministration

36 replies

Boygirl5 · 04/07/2013 22:47

Hi everyone, I'm new on here, so here goes.....
I had an appeal hearing on 17th June. First the school rep gave his case, I had no questions. Then it was my turn, I had prepared a script to read from which I asked could I read from. I offered the clerk a copy and he accepted. When I had finished the panel said they had no questions and neither did the school rep.
Panel asked school rep to sum up and he declined they then asked me if I wanted to sum up I said yes I had some notes. The chair then asked if I had copies of that too i said yes. So he asked me to just leave my notes as they would read themselves as they had nearly 60 appeals to hear!

I rang the efa later that day as I wasn't happy that I hadn't been asked questions, allowed to sum up, nor had they made reference to any of the many letters of support.
The efa advised that I should wait until I receive the outcome of the appeal before putting a complaint in.
I found out on Friday 28th June that my appeal had been unsuccessful, I have sent an email of complaint to the efa the same day 28th June.

I believe this constitutes maladministration. Does anyone have any thoughts on this or experience on how likely I am to be granted another appeal or indeed how long these things take.

Many thanks in advance for any advice/support

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Original poster
Boygirl5 · 10/07/2013 21:23

I was told they would by the clerks secretary before appeal. However, I think the panel wouldn't think like this and I think it went against me.

OP posts:
titchy · 10/07/2013 21:16

So if you appeal for one and are successful, the other wont automatically get in , although they'd be at the top of the waiting list.

titchy · 10/07/2013 21:13

Appeals and admissions criteria are not the same though. The admissions criteria may well say if a multiple both sibling gets a place the others will too, but appeals panels don't work like that.

Original poster
Boygirl5 · 10/07/2013 20:14

I felt having twins went against me at appeal, one of the five bullet points in my decision letter was that I wanted two places as they were twins.

The school I'm appealing to has a very strict code on twins, if one gets a place the other does too, it's as simple as that.
I was told this when I asked for an appeal form, although they had never had twins appeal before.

Thanks

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prh47bridge · 10/07/2013 13:49

Feel free to message me if you want some help.

I am fully aware of the latest Appeals Code and there is definitely nothing in it that says twins must be considered together. If a school is doing it I would complain as it reduces the chances of a successful appeal. There is nothing wrong with hearing both cases at the same time but the panel must consider each twin separately.

Having a sibling rule in the admission arrangements normally only means that if one twin succeeds at appeal the other would almost certainly be moved to the head of the waiting list. But the school could in this situation choose to admit the other twin even though it takes them over PAN.

cory · 10/07/2013 09:31

No expert here, but I have got my own dd into secondary on appeal on medical/MH grounds.

The weakness in your case seems to be that you don't really prove why this is the only school that can meet your son's emotional needs. "Prides itself on pastoral care" is a very vague phrase. All secondary schools are supposed to provide pastoral care, they will all have a counsellor and somebody in charge of pastoral support. All secondaries regularly have to deal with student with depression: it is very common at this age. "Our school prides itself on pastoral support" isn't actually evidence that the school provides something the other school does not; it's just an advert.

To have a chance here you would have to argue that this school has a particular kind of support that is particularly geared to your son's particular type of problem. And you need to prove this, not just reference the blurb in their prospectus or other phrases they use to sell themselves.

I had a friend who successfully argued for her dc's admission as she was terminally ill and the school she applied for had special resources set aside for bereavement counselling. That's the sort of argument you need.

When I argued for dd's admission due to physical SN, we provided plans of the available schools to show how she could or could not access all classes in her wheelchair. Backed up by letters from a paediatrician to explain exactly how and when she would need to use the wheelchair. It's this kind of specific approach you need.

Original poster
Boygirl5 · 10/07/2013 00:59

Thanks for your advice. If I manage to get an appeal due to the maladministration I'm going to appeal for just one twin.

If I manage to get the appeal would you mind if message you for advice please?

The twin code was in something I read on a schools appeal site. It is, to my knowledge, very recent?
Also the desired school has a sibling rule and I was assured if one were to win at appeal the other would also gain a place.
I would need to strengthen my case as much as possible.

Thanks

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prh47bridge · 10/07/2013 00:38

the new code states twins should be treated as one at appeal

No it doesn't. I don't know where you get that from. The only provision for multiple births in the Codes is that they have an exemption from infant class size limits.

I agree that you should be careful about comparing the appeal school with the offered school and in particular avoid negative comments as far as possible. Remember you are appealing for a school, not against the offered school. It is acceptable, of course, to say that the appeal school has X which the offered school does not, e.g. the appeal school has maths and science clubs but the offered school does not.

I would recommend focussing on each twin in turn and building the best case you can for each of them. Of course, if you get one in the other is likely to jump straight to the top of the waiting list.

Not questioning the school was, in my view, a mistake. I would at the very least have asked about the years that are currently over PAN, at least up to Y11. I would ask them whether they were having any problems as a result of the additional pupils. In particular, I would look at the things they raise in their case to refuse admission (probably things like overcrowding in the corridors, problems with organising lunch, etc.) and ask questions around that. Have they had any reportable accidents attributable to overcrowding? With every year already over PAN how are they coping? And so on.

You should most definitely mention the maths and science stuff. That helps your appeal. It is the kind of thing the panel want to hear as it shows that your child's education will suffer if he is not admitted.

Original poster
Boygirl5 · 09/07/2013 23:56

Hello again, yes the maths and science clubs are not available at the allocated school. Both my children love maths ans science and were especially impressed with the science labs and the maths club, which is before school starts.
Does this strengthen my case? Is it worth mentioning?

Thanks for all help and info.

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Original poster
Boygirl5 · 09/07/2013 00:48

Just to add, the smallest yr group at the minute is the current yr 7 at 157 PAN 150
The largest is 189 which was last year GCSE group.

They admitted 150 this year and 5 of the 51 appeals were won bringing it to 155.

The expert told me she couldn't see any flaws in their admittance policy nor could she think of any questions to ask the principal after he put his case forward, she told me to say,
I accept that you have admitted your PAN however I see in previous years you have admitted children through appeal and I'm here today to put forward my appeal and hope you will admit my children via appeal.

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Original poster
Boygirl5 · 09/07/2013 00:43

Thanks for info. I would be happy with one place at the moment for my son who has suffered depression. Although they do have a sibling rule, also the new code states twins should be treated as one at appeal.
Although my other child would be happy at the allocated school, so I'd be happy to gain one place an reapply for his twin for next available place.

To be fair my case did include the clubs available that they intended to join. Including maths, science and several sports and IT club.
I think it was basically too dilute as someone pointed out earlier. The person I've paid put too much in, I questioned this before submitting but she assured she was doing he right things. The friends and family letters to show strong connections with school.
Sports letter to show good sportsmanship etc

She told me not too compare the two schools too much as I shouldn't be seen to be making negative comments about other school etc.

Now I realise that I should just focus on one twin, his depression and the pastoral care the school provide. Also the clubs etc the school provide.

His head of year was convinced I had an excellent case and was sure I would win at appeal.

The worst thing was telling him....

Thanks

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prh47bridge · 09/07/2013 00:29

The more you post about your "expert" the less impressed I am.

The appeal panel has to balance the prejudice to the school through having to cope with another pupil against the prejudice to your sons through not being admitted to this school. The case to refuse admission is that they have applied the admission arrangements correctly and that they couldn't possibly be expected to cope with another pupil. It helps your case if you can pick holes in that case and show that the school can cope with more pupils without much difficulty.

Your case should be about the disadvantage to your sons if they are not admitted. The maths and science clubs are very relevant to that, particularly if the offered school doesn't have anything similar.

Note that the panel could choose to admit one twin but not the other. You therefore need to make as good a case as possible for each of them.

Original poster
Boygirl5 · 08/07/2013 22:29

Also, if I manage to get another appeal..... Do I mention the other things about the school suited to my soms interests? Such as maths and science clubs etc
Or do these class as s irrelevant? He is a keen mathematician. And is generally very academic but is also a great sportsman.

The 'expert' who prepared my case last time said that for my case to out weigh the schools I must prove my children would be an asset and cause no problems hence all the support letters from football manager etc
Basically that to not attend would be detrimental to health and education.

Thanks

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Original poster
Boygirl5 · 08/07/2013 21:39

Ahh I see what you mean. Obviously when I hired tutor and therapist I didn't do so thinking I would need them for an appeal.

The gp letter said he suffered depression due to school related issues resulting in 10lbs in weight loss and hair loss. (At 6stones and 10 years of aGe it was a lot). It said Tom had seen a tutor and therapist to help him.

The therapist was recommended to me by someone I know and the tutor I hired through the Internet. He works at a local grammar, he was quite young and I thought he would 'connect' with my son. He has his only business as a private tutor also.

I didn't bring it up at the original application quite truthfully because I was hoping they would get in via random selection. There are two of them therefore twice the chance (if one is selected the other automatically gets a place).
Also hadn't gathered any evidence as such, his head of year was aware and was addressing the situation in his current school. I didn't really feel the need to start collecting evidence to complete the LEA preferences.

The school he has been allocated has 240 children per year! I feel he'll be 'swallowed up' in a school that size. The school I'm appealing only has 150.
The allocated school pastoral care speaks of drug use and extreme bullying involving the police.
The desired school speaks of emotional and spiritual well being.

Thanks

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NotFluffy · 08/07/2013 20:13

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Boygirl5 · 08/07/2013 18:27

Notfluffy - the paperwork was basically that the school was full.
I applied only under the faith criteria. Thanks

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Original poster
Boygirl5 · 08/07/2013 17:55

Prh47 thanks for your help. If I get another hearing ill be asking a million questions

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Original poster
Boygirl5 · 08/07/2013 17:54

Notfluffy - thanks for replying. Yes I'm of the correct faith. I applied under the faith criteria, the selection is made via random allocation.
It was a private hypnotherapist I hired along with a private tutor.

I feel it vital to mention he has a twin, who I am happy to attend the offered school. It's not a witch hunt for the offered school by any means, far from it.
I, as a mother, know what's best for them and what support they need and where they would thrive. Two very different people with very different needs. Hope this makes sense.
The info gathered re:pastoral care was on the prospectus and speaking to staff on the open evenings of the four schools we visited.
I do appreciate any advice you can give, and hope if I manage to get another hearing you don't mind me asking some questions. Thanks

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prh47bridge · 08/07/2013 15:35

Some of the advice you were given seems very poor. Family connections with the school are irrelevant, for example. This is why I always advise against paying "experts" to help with admissions appeals. Mind you, my wife keeps telling me I should set up as an expert so maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot! Grin

15 minutes for two appeals is very quick. It would be quick even for one appeal. Fingers crossed the EFA will send it back for a fresh hearing with a different panel.

NotFluffy · 08/07/2013 15:32

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Boygirl5 · 08/07/2013 13:35

Tiggytape - thanks for all your input. Are you a panel member yourself? I'd had no experience with appeals etc which is why I paid an 'expert' to help and advise.

Thanks

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Original poster
Boygirl5 · 08/07/2013 13:31

Notfluffy - I was in there around 15 mins which was for two appeals as I have twins.
What experience as a panel member do you have? The school I was appealing to is an over subscribed faith school, one which not only does very well, academically but prides itself on its pastoral care.
My sons current head of year recommended the school. It is only 2 miles from our house.
The person helping with my appeal told me to add letters from family etc to show current connections with school, my nephew attends already etc.
Also had letter from GP and therapist.

The head of year felt my case was very strong. Obviously she is not a panel member.
I would appreciate any help you could offer. I was advised that without a dr letter no appeal would be successful.

Thanks

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Original poster
Boygirl5 · 08/07/2013 13:25

Formalurka - the priests letter is to reinforce the faith part of our application. Basically the priest knows us and we attend church.

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Original poster
Boygirl5 · 08/07/2013 11:43

Thanks everyone. Yes I would change the focus. My son was diagnosed with depression in yr 5. The dr and hypnotherapist agreed it had begun due to school issues, basically the teacher not teaching to his level.
During yr 6 his year head is very aware and has closely monitored the situation, he has overcome it with help and is leaving yr 6 with 2 level 6's and 2 level 5's in his SAT's
The school i am appealing to prides itself on the emotional well being of its pupil, hence the appeal.
I could of appealed to a grammar as he missed out by a few points and he sat the exam when he was still seeing the dr and therapist. However the pastoral care is not as good and I was worried there may be too much pressure there for him.
The case I submitted was with the help of a so called professional in school appeals. If I manage to secure another appeal I will be doing it myself with advice from here I hope.
I'm really grateful for your helpful advice. Thanks

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tiggytape · 06/07/2013 17:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.