The consequences of not taking a MFL GCSE

mum your daughter has clearly achieved against the odds and I am sorry that you seem to have taken this personally, it was not intended so. This thread is about whether having an MFL is an advantage. It is, that is why the indies make it compulsory. I think there are two issues here, firstly that the state sector doesn't match the independent sector in encouraging pupils to take languages and equip themselves with that advantage, secondly too often those with learning difficulties are advised not to study languages, again leaving them without the opportunity to gain that advantage, when with the right support the indies enable them to succeed. I am sure your daughter will go on to achieve great things, coping with adversity gives you those life skills but I was arguing the general principle.

Needmore No, neither did IGCSE in their MFLs, and I completely stand by my assertion that a dyslexic can get a GCSE in a MFL, with encouragement and the right support. I'm not saying it is easy but it is a useful and advantageous part of their education. I am fully aware that those of us with SpLDs vary, I am from a whole family of people with SpLDs, my DB left school barely able to read with one CSE in woodwork ,labelled stupid, but he did an apprenticeship, went back to college and ended up with a degree and now is on the Board of a European company, speaking and writing, yes, fluent French. I can't spell for toffee so I have to use spellcheck, ask a friend whatever, but I have learnt and passed exams in a MFL in the past few years because I need it for my academic studies. It wasn't easy, if I needed demonstration of what a learning difficulty means I had it in how far behind the rest of the class I was in picking up vocab and pronunciation BUT I worked hard outside class to learn it all by rote.That is the point, I am all for levelling the playing field in exams (and furious about the latest Gove inspired tilting by the exam boards, fought furiously to get my DD her extra time back) and for making teaching in schools more inclusive of different learning styles but equally I don't think that being dyslexic, or having any other learning difficulty means you can't do anything, just that it is harder, and if you want to prepare your DC for life in the real world then it is important they know that and learn to rise to that challenge

Copthall. Are you talking about iGCSE. Taken by most indies I know of in part because it is seen as a better preparation for AS and A level. I dont wamt to start a debate but there is a belief that it is harder. However it suits my dyslexic daughter fine. She quite likes decoding grammar and has a reasonable ear. And would choose a MFL over an essay subject any day.

I think she would struggle learning and regurgitating text.

Bruffin My yr11 DD has recently completed French GCSE - Edexcel.

Certainly the 2 speaking CAs worth 30% were like you say, not much more than a memory test. To some extent the 2 written CAs too, worth the same.

But the reading and listening exam components, were on anything in the syllabus, no knowledge of the questions in advance. DD said the listening was more difficult that any of the practice papers they had done, which were all more difficult than any past papers.

She struggles with essay subjects, but enjoys French, and hopes to take A llevel.

She has been told by some of the admissions officers that a language A level is an advantage for a Music degree.

Honestly you have been fooled all the boards are the same. You are given the question before hand and write The answer beforehand then regurgitate it for the exam.I have just looked at a comprehension paper. It is very short passages and short questions and answers in English. Its nothing like the olevel German I did which involved long texts of translation. Oral exam infront of external examiners with no idea of the questions beforehand and writing an essay in German.
My ds is very intelligent and gets As in humanities His teachers rave about his analytical abilities and has tken Philosophy for A2.He is looking to take Mechanical Engineering at uni. He has just spent the week at Imperial on an engineering course. He is not letting dyslexia defeat him but all his German gcse shows is that he cant remember long passages, nothing else about his intellect.
My dd had a problem with her timetable. She wanted to take Italian but everything clashed, so she dropped it. Im sure she can take it later if she wants to.

My dd hasnt bothered

BTW I failed French O level too, retook it and passed it, and I have certainly used the vocabulary I learned then throughout my life. In fact with the possible exception of Maths I can't think of an O level in which the learning and regurgitating of stuff you had to do then, has been more useful to me in real life.

Bruffin Obviously a different board, since what gave DD the B was applying solid learning of grammar and vocabulary, that was the strategy the school supported her with. Clearly marks were going to be lost in speaking and listening, but could be made up in the other areas.

So why do you think the indies make a MFL obligatory, if it doesn't give their pupils breadth, and an advantage?

Certainly with the courses my DD is about to apply to, which has a language component, her MFL will give her an advantage. She only just decided that was what she wanted to study so thankfully she didn't give up on an MFL at GCSE. I also know that (I am an academic), given her dyslexia and dyspraxia will be flagged in her application as contextual information, that that B in French and her success in essay based subjects, gives the universities proof that she has overcome adversity. Of course she could have got an A* in media studies (and I am no downer on media studies since I see the media as no less worthy of study than any other part of society, it is just not a demanding GCSE, and unis know that) but I am sure a B in French is certainly more of an advantage.

I really worry, as a dyslexic myself, that schools are discouraging students with SpLDs from MFLs and essay based subjects. Yes, they need to understand the challenges they represent. Yes, they need to be equipped with strategies to overcome those challenges, but if that is where their interests and motivations lie then they should be encouraged. In essay based subjects the particular strengths of Dyslexics, holistic thinking etc. really become an advantage the higher the level you study them at. Many of our leading Historians are dyslexic.

Coptahall its all regurgitation. They are given the questions before hand and prepare it. My ds had questions he had to answer for the oral. He spent ages trying to remember the answers. I know he got a B for one section but got a D overall. He could have probaly got an A in most other subjects.
We are now doing the rounds of universities at the moment and only UCL require a language
There are opportunities to go to Japan for Leeds and they prepare you for that., how many of their students will have a gcse in Japanese.
My DH is dyslexic was not allowed to do languages at school and worked all over the world including probably
over a year of his life (if you add it up) in Germany. Also France, Spain ,Turkey ,Netherlands, Portugal and US and probably a few others.He never had a problem despite never doing a language at school. Nobody is going to have all those languages at gcse.

Bruffin DD who got a B, got Ds in the oral and listening, but was able to recover it in the comprehension tests, having worked hard to build up her vocabulary. It is not just regurgitating a memorised piece, which incidentally she was asked questions on after.

She has certainly used her French on her exchange visits.

I am not surprised you would not need German in Frankfurt, an International Finance Centre, just like you don't need Cantonese or Mandarin in Hong Kong, but it does help. In fact a MFL is a condition for consideration for DDs banks' graduate recruitment scheme, and it also was for DDs internship in a research lab deep in the German countryside.

Copthall
My mildly dyslexic ds ended up with a D because mfl exams dont work for him. It was trying to remember long passages of text and he just couldnt do it. An MFL gcse is just a memory test and requires very little understanding.

I am sure he would have no problems picking up a language working abroad and i suspect a gcse in a language is meaningless when it comes to recruitment. It certainly doesnt represent someone who can hold a conversation in the language.
Friends dd has just got herself a job in Frankfurt with no german at all.

mumslife it is rubbish to say a dyslexic DC, especially one who is mildly so, can't get a decent GCSE in MFL. I have two DDs diagnosed moderately dyslexic, both did MFL GCSEs, one did two. It is more of a challenge but with hard work one got an A*and an A, and one got a B (she is also dyspraxic, so problems with word finding in the oral also a problem). However we have lived overseas and both want to do so again so for them not doing a language was unacceptable. My older DD is now studying Science at uni and was offered this summer an internship in Germany, partly on the strength of her German GCSE. It is a shame that DCs are not encouraged to do at least one MFL, as they are (it is often obligatory) in the indies, not just in terms of uni entrance, but real life.......

9 good gcses are certainly enough for any uni admissions criteria - which is what the thread was about - its a bit harder to get a good spread of subjects in that number though I'd have thought(I'm still pissed off my school only did 8 o levels which definitely meant focussing too early)

Grimma, DS1's school does just 9 GCSEs as standard. Outstanding school and all that. Seems fine.

DS2's would appear to be putting him in for 11. Or maybe not, given the state of his school report. Sigh.

2rebecca doing some form of science GCSE has been mandatory in England for quite a while. The more able pupils tend to do triple, whilst the less able do double (but still study biology, chemistry and physics). Triple means they have covered more topics within each subject.

I didn't realise the sciences were now mandatory in England although do find the double/ triple thing confusing, it's still individual science subjects at my kids' schools eg physics. 13 or 14 sounds excessive

Do you only do 4 choices in England now plus maths and English?

varies according to the school and often the individual child. Science - triple, double or single award are mandatory (but the single I think would only be for less able pupils - probably not too relevant to this particular discussion). Different schools will then have different options. So for instance at DDs they have to do maths, 2xeng and 3x science, they also have to do at least one of the three humanities and at least 1 mfl and then they have 3 other options (which could be more humanities or languages but might be a tech, computer science and an 'arts' subject- 11 in total, broad coverage.

I've never come across a school offering less than 10 gcses for academically able pupils, some comps they rack up 13 or 14!

Do you only do 4 choices in England now plus maths and English? I thought you all did 6 still? In Scotland many areas where kids have been reduced to only taking 6 subjects in total rather than the usual 8 are complaining as 6 doesn't give much bredth. If she is much better at geog and history i'd do both as if she's only doing a few subjects she'll need good grades in them. It looks an unbalanced selection with neither a science or a modern language, but most of us end up in jobs where that doesn't matter. Has she any idea what she wants to do?

Listtentree Mf gcse Is very different to gcse olevel. It is literally writing a piece then regurgitating it later in an exam situation.

My son is moderately dyslexic but got a good grade at standard grade in a modern language. Much of the exam was listening and speaking and he was good at those, he struggled more with higher where there was more writing involved and spelling mistakes not tolerated.

Hi,
Yes of course the top universities do rate a MFL particularly when selecting for humanities degrees. I know its tricky to predict but if DD is going to go on to study for a graphic design degree for example it won't be an issue, if a degree in History and definitely if English then a MFL GCSE may help for some universities. It would also help her understanding of English.
Some schools (mainstream included) will insist on one MFL and only exempt children with disabilities such as dyslexia.