Can 'teach first' really be doing this?

As I seem to be the lone TFer on this thread I assume that the accusation of smuggery is aimed at me. I have not claimed to be amazing, I have said that I have a degree result that is the most commonly achieved by graduates today - hardly a boast. I have said that I have been lucky to be in the right place at the right time - hardly blowing my own trumpet.

I haven't even claimed to be an outstanding teacher.

I did a PGCE in Secondary Maths and I would not have been able to go in as a Teach First trainee instead, the PGCE was essential for me. Not for everyone however, I had a few colleagues who were natural and would have been excellent TF candidates.

well exactly noblegiraffe

My parents are proud that I am a teacher, although to be honest my parents are proud that I am not in prison.

I would be proud if my children became teachers.

When I tell people in RL that I am a teacher I tend to get treated like a saintly superhero.

I think poorly performing schools are very lucky to have TF graduates. They are also very lucky to have other well-educated and enthusiastic teachers who've arrived via other routes into teaching. But sadly some teachers are poorly educated and/or shoddy/jaded/lazy/unenthusiastic/ lacking in energy etc. I don't know the reasons for it.

People used to be proud to have a father/mother/daughter or son who was a teacher. This no longer seems to be the case. When did that happen?

I will never claim to be a top anything, I am your average Joanna who has been lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.

I never said a 2:1 was perfect, in fact I have stated at least twice that they are not. Heck even I have one!

I wasn't trying to catch you out - just pointing out that you may well be a, 'Top graduate' (whatever that is) but that, like my 2:1, may not be perfect.

I didn't criticize 2:1s. One of my degrees is a 2:1. I think the most common degree classification is a 2:1. I said it wasn't perfection. I also said we hired teachers with 2:1s.

There you go Remus, you caught me out. I have one O level in metalwork.

Does the 3 or 4 year B Ed or BA with QTS still exist? If so, what are the entry requirements for that?

(Following on from the entry requirements comments) all of the STs on my PGCE course that I know have at least a 2:1. Some from Oxbridge, some Russell Group, and some ex-poly (like me). I don't see what makes TFers "better graduates".

Giraffe - Another v good post.

Philo - Criticising 2:1s whilst writing, 'I have rose up the ranks,' isn't helping your cause tbh.

By the way, I did a physics degree, and the only people I know from my course who went into teaching got a 2:2. That was before 'Teach First', and before various other incentives were brought in, so perhaps its different now.

It does baffle me somewhat the incentives that are thrown at these 'top graduates' to try their hand at teaching for a couple of years.

I'm a maths specialist, I meet the Teach First entry criteria. Not only that but unlike them I have a proven track record of teaching success, having taught for 8 years.

But are there any governmental plans to keep me in teaching? No: pay freezes, pension cuts, ludicrous workload, being slated in the Mail by Gove etc.

I just don't get it. If they could keep people like me in teaching, they wouldn't need to throw so much at trying to get maths graduates into teaching - they even had to u-turn on not allowing people with 3rds to train in maths and physics they're that desperate.

So much for recruitment, very little for retention.

"Sadly I suspect they will be in some of our most challenging schools where many teachers with better qualifications will choose not to work - these schools also take on TF graduates "

Yep, you're probably right. If PGCE trainees could be obliged to spend their first two years in an "allocated" school, like TF trainees, then that problem might be partially addressed. Perhaps the TF programme is a step in that direction.

I don't think having a 2:1 is perfect!

Saturdaysuperstore I would like to know where thse teachers with 2:2 are working. Sadly I suspect they will be in some of our most challenging schools where many teachers with better qualifications will choose not to work - these schools also take on TF graduates - so there may appear to be a greater difference between these two types of teachers in challenging schools. I suspect that if they move on to "leafier" schools the difference may be less marked.

Philo, there aren't enough good teachers to go around and there never will be. 10% of the graduate workforce needs to train at any given time just to staff the sector. Not all of that 10% will be perfect.

"Having looked at the TF website, the entry requirements are as follows:"
"2:1 degree"
"300 UCAS points at A Level (that's 3 Bs, if taken from 3 A Levels, though it doesn't specify the number of A levels)"
"A C grade in GCSE English & Maths"

In contrast, the secondary PGCE requirements are:

A 2:2 honours degree relevant to your subject specialism (at least 50% of the degree content needs to be relevant to your chosen specialism).
GCSE (A to C): English Language and Mathematics

Clearly there will be some overlap between the qualifications of Teach First trainees and the qualifications of PGCE trainees, but the bar is set slightly higher for Teach First. With a 2:1 degree you can do a PhD, and access many top graduate jobs. A 2:2 gives you fewer options, one of which is teaching. That is why the PGCE has a reputation (unfair in many cases, but not in all) for attracting many people who weren't necessarily planning a career in teaching.

The hidden agenda behind Teach First is that they teach the kids nobody else wants to work with, and if Teach First rookies didn't step in, nobody would, and these kids would just have random supply people dealing with them in a lot of cases.

The real scandal is that recruitment and retention allowances at an appropriate level are not paid to qualified, experienced teachers to take on these jobs.

But why can't you be of a high educational calibre and be a great classroom practitioner. I really don't understand why academic excellence isn't seen as a must for teachers.

I think perhaps TF graduates have a different approach to teaching. IN my case teaching is not a vocation to me, it is something I do to have more time with the children. About two or three years in I went to my head and said I wanted a promotion and I got it. I have also rose up the ranks relatively quickly . I know that some see me as ruthlessly ambitious - although few people know that I have a teach first background. I teach as a means to an end - rather than living and breathing it.