Can 'teach first' really be doing this?

I'm interested in how you know that most teachers' qualifications aren't as high as TF requires.

Grove... is that you?

Irish first. Damn you iPad.

Evil - I'd just be interested to know if your qualifications match the requirements for Teach First? Most teachers' qualifications certainly wold not. The deputy head at a local Primary school not far from me got DEU at A level in pretty hopeless subjects.

I gather the 300 points at A level, not including Gen Studies, and a 2:1 or better degree are the minimum level for application to TF. It is very very competitive (but less competitive for maths, sciences, comp for obvious reasons). The high status of the TF programme and their detailed selection process means they really can choose the people most likely to succeed on an accelerated teacher-training programme, from a very big, well-qualified field.. There are of course many truly excellent, well-qualified, dedicated and talented teachers who've come to teacher via non TF avenues, but the majority of teachers I've come across in state secondary schools aren't very impressive at all.

The fact that some teachers are bitter about TF ers having some status says it all really.

I have 'scanned' over this thread and I still feel the same way I did after watching the first episode of Tough Young Teachers! I would not want my daughter to be taught by any first time TF teacher. There were some children in the programme who had more then one of them as a teacher. A whole year of education in English and Maths, with a teacher who has had no classroom experience, and may turn out to be a bit crap, isn't something that sits well with me... more like an experiment.

The TF candidates I worked with were all from top universities. I know they don't have to be, but I thought that would happen through the selection process. I was one of the early ones though, so it may have become less selective as it grew.

DH was a Teach First teacher. In his first year there was a small drop in grades, from his second year onwards grades were consistently better than previously. I admit that I am somewhat on the fence. Individual strengths and weaknesses are critical (as has been said upthread). Also, there are some very experienced teachers who have consistently bad results.

In my experience poor TF candidates quit or are forced out. I have seen schools be far more ruthless with TF candidates than PGCE students.

In fact I was warned about being too tough with PGCE students because I was informed by my own training experiences.

Anecdotal of course , but that is my experience.

philo - there is nowhere in the TF literature that says they take grads from only good universities. In fact, I know that they don't. The only requirement is a 2:1. Doesn't matter if that's from Oxbridge or an ex-poly.

I appreciate that although the research was carried out at Manchester University it was commissioned by Teach First so not ideal.

Philo course you haven't, but the TF website really does hail itself as the way to save state education. That's my objection. Individual teachers are just that - individuals. I worked with two PGCE students last year - one brilliant, one crap. If they were TF teachers, though, the kids being taught by the brilliant one would be fine, the kids being taught by the crap one would have had a shit year, and now a new bunch would be having a shit year. And she'd have been getting paid for it.

Are they harming children?

I never saw teaching as a gimmick.

I would be interested to see how different TF retention rates compare to the retention rates for PGCE students with 1st or 2:1 from top universities. Those candidates may have more options, more contacts and therefore may be more likely to leave regardless of their route.

I was never left in a room to fail children, I was under constant scrutiny and was intensively trained . I do recognise that the level of training depends on the school , however this is the same with PGCE students.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11743616

There are a lot of very experienced teachers who are rubbish. Experience is important, but it isn't everything. (Of course neither are grades.)

I have never been hailed as a saviour of education . I have never claimed to get better than a PGCE student, although apparantly I must be crap.

It is quite common IME for an NQT to move schools after two years and PGCE students almost always move on despite forging relationships with children. Are they ham

Can you point to evidence for that boost in results?

TF teachers are not paid a teacher's salary until year 2. (No-one said they were, but wanted to clarify anyway.)

The introduction of Teach First teachers into a school is associated with a boost in results. Presumably that's why schools continue to use them.

Why do you want to know? I have no issues sharing my qualifications.

Either answer or don't answer. Answering selectively is utterly pointless.

A levels in English Lit (A), Classics (A) & History (B) Went to Warwick and got a 2:1 in English & Theatre Studies (joint honour) then PGCE in English & Drama. Am now Head of Performing Arts at a school which fits right into the TF category (they're starting in my area in Sept 2014) having previously taught at one on the list in Central London.

Goodness - what class was your Irish degree and from where and in what subject?

I'd be happy for my children to be taught by any of those TF graduates on the TYT programme.

As and oxbridge in my initial degree. A first in my second.

I'm a good teacher but not the world's best. Lots of very experienced teachers are less qualified than me but far better, more inspirational etc.

Experience really counts in teaching.

Similarly I agree re: disappearing after a year. Bring able to go through school without all your teachers choppimg and changing is a good thing.

tf teachers are essentially trainee students and should be seen as such!

Evil twins - What subjects and grades did you get at A level? Which university, what degree course and what class of degree did you come out with? And what do you now teach?

Exactly evil twins. I'm ex oxbridge, many colleagues were. Lots of Russell group graduates. Some very good very experienced teachers with years of experience behind them. I'd go to them for inspiration and advice. Not a trainee!

Excuse the typos. Am making Yorkshire puds.