There's a "culture of low expectation" in secondary schools. Do you agree?

And I don't think you can blame a school for not throwing resources at that outlier!

The trouble with the top set argument, is that it's still a fairly wide spread of ability. You just don't get the critical mass at a comp except at the centre of the bell curve.

And when GCSEs come into play, not everyone in the top set takes the same subjects, so you can get even more mixed ability in some subjects.

A very bright kid can end up a srious outlier!

I agree with LaQueen on this: They'd be guaranteed to get the C grades, and most likely quite easily scoop some As and Bs, too. But, they'd scoop them through their own natural ability/focus...and who knows what they might have achieved if given the same amount of teacher input/direction as the lower ability pupils?

You're right: the 11+ is a terrible system.

It's going to vary considerably, depending on the individual school, but I'd certainly say that's been my ds's experience.
Schools have so much pressure to get pupils to the 'magical C grade' at GCSE, that those they know will get them without effort are left to coast in many schools. Not all, but it certainly happens.

Everyone is just going to answer based on their own experience.

Of course there are some great schools of all kinds with excellent teachers and wonderful pupils, but there are also a lot of not good ones. And I know a lot of teachers who openly say they are told to teach to the middle, no one pretends it isn't fairly standard.

I agree with it.

I know puberty is partly to blame, but I also think there's something else - not sure what. Or is it just the primary schools give them ridiculously high levels? Certainly, my 'top performing' girl from primary will probably get a B in GCSE English Language and GCSE English Lit. That's despite attempts to get her to an A. Her target is an A*.

And we also have pretty bright kids in top sets, who've been identified for the kind of additional challenges that this report asserts don't happen.

Yes but by your own admission, LQ, that's not a genuine comprehensive.

A lot of us on this thread whose children do go to comprehensives have said that our Y7 experience has been rather good. Five of us, as opposed to three who have said it hasn't been. And we are the ones whose children attend these Academies Of Depravity.

wordfactory - yes, it's a classic case of wrong incentives. Schools need to be incentivised to get many As, not just 5 A-Cs.

It's not a case of low expectation.

It's acase of which expectation.

Schools are judged on how many pupils can get 5 GCSEs so obviously they target their resources there. Which is the right thing for the majority of children.

But it does mean the very bright are sometimes not well catered for. It's a numbers game, innit?

Dog Whistle national advert for public schools!!!

I think that, understandably, schools see year 7 as in part for settling down.. Not like starting sixth form, or university, where the message is 'RIGHT, now for some hard work the likes of which you have never seen before'

Dd1 did spend a boring term in English reading Holes again. But both had much harder maths than they'd been used to. I think schools are very aware of who is clever and who might bring in the a*s... Not that they are any indicator, since they're so easy to get and so lacking in rigour.

Oh wait, that was Wednesday, wasn't it.

Anyway, I think the schools do know, and they do want the brightest to do well, but don't necessarily see year 7 as the time to get too intense about that.

I have to say that Year 7 has always been about settling kids in and soret of gathering them together for Year 8, and seeing who knows what from the feeder schools hasnt it. Unless it has changed dramatically in the last few years.

As for school being uncool. It was ever thus I would have thought.
That age wants to rebel. School is about conforming.

The only thing I can think of to improve that is much much much better careers advise.
I didnt realise one of my DDs didnt know till late in the day of quite how good qualifications need to be in get into certain careers. When she found out, she was instantly a bit horrified. And says she would have tried harder a lot sooner- Instead of so much chatting with friends and lookiking out of the window. [As far as I knew, I thought she already had been trying her best, but apparently not].

not at all MI, I think there are as many kids with the same attitude at private school too! It is an attitude that has oozed through teens for years I think - but I don't really understand why.

That's the other thing I'd let teachers do: Give kids the choice to come to lessons and behave or piss off and let the others get on with it.

Onoooooooooooooo, Bugsy, you have just opened the door wide to all the people who will now say this happens only in comps as opposed to selective and/or private schools where a culture of learning reigns supreme, leaving our kids to the feral jungle of comprehensives where any admission of literacy will lead to shame/GBH/social ostracism/rebellion, self-denial and self-harm/all of the above.

I feel like I have stepped into an alternate universe (slightly).

Have the days gone when the cool kids were the disruptive, rebellious ones with no interest in learning?

Do kids no longer refer to the more studious members of class as "nerds"?

If that is true, fantastic! However, I'm not sure that is the case. I think for some reason in the UK, school is still perceived by a fair percentage of kids as a bit of a waste of time. I don't know where this notion springs from or how you get rid of it, but I think that no matter how many great & inspiring teachers you have, how many changes & tweaks you make to the system, until you break down this long ingrained belief that school is "uncool", annoying and to be endured, then yes, a culture of underachievement for some pupils will remain in the UK.

curlew. To give you evidence I would have to take you into "my" school, and take you in time travel to a parents meeting about 3 or 4 years ago. You could then listen in to the parents evening and afterwards to private discussions with parents,with the Head and other teachers.
But it doesnt take brain of Britain to see how that is replicated around the country.
Each county is different.

I do not think this is a new problem. My son is now 33 but when he started school he did very well and loved learning. Unfortunately all those years ago I felt let down by the secondary system and paid a lot of money for extra tuition. He did get brilliant A level results but I think it was the peripetatic teaching and me making a nuisance of myself at the school. I was told not to be pushy and over expectant of my child. I have since heard that mothers of boys have the same gripe. My son is now doing very well in a job he absolutely loves. I certainly do believe there are good and bad teachers and many have such low expectations of their pupils. Why do we as a country put teachers on a pedestal without being realistic of their very varied abilities. It does not do our children any favours.

No, I have not found this to be the case.

its the best preparation for real life you could have!