There's a "culture of low expectation" in secondary schools. Do you agree?

Maybe the children on the D/C border need the extra help?

Just a thought.........

Bryte the C\D border Teachers/TAs are seem especially prevalent in schools in poor areas so if you are an able child in those schools you will most likely not get extra the help ,which a child in a mc comp, grammar or indie would, to help you meet your potential.

But we have been told by people who should know that Cs are not the measure of success.....

It occurs to me as well that for a not particularly academic young person going out into the workplace or hoping to go to college getting at least a couple of Cs would be absolutely vital- hard enough with them but practically impossible without. So it seems entirely reasonable that a school should channel resources into these kids- it might benefit the school for them to get Cs, but it's absolutely bloody crucial for the kids concerned. The difference in some cases between training, or a job or a life on the dole.

I presume that there are a few paths in life where having Bs instead of As might make a difference to you- but the number of doors closed if you've got Ds instead of Cs is overwhelming. Schools do not always act out of total self interest.......

Schools try to meet all criteria but it is true if C's are the measure then they are the emphasis for survival - literally for some of these Heads.

Just because they have employed a TA to work with C/D borderliners it does not mean everyone else gets ignored.

The concentrating on Cs is not an urban myth where I live. I have a friend who is a TA at a secondary school, employed specifically to work in classes with borderline D/C grade children. The best school in our area has a similar focus. If you want your child to be stretched beyond average, you have to hassle the school. But I live in a county whose schools are close to bottom on the national overall league tables. It seems logical to me that you would direct your work towards the criteria that you are measured on, and if league tables are compiled on the basis of pupils achieving at least a C at GCSE, then that's what schools will be devoting their energies towards.

Good comments married in white again.

I agree with Hully up thread. Also I believe as a society we have lost cognizance of "well educated" and there is a huge difference between being well educated rather than well qualified. I would go for the former and that I believe is what we are paying for at our DC's independent schools - something more of the "all round" and teaching to their personal potential.

I went from private primary to state grammar (amazingly). In the early 70s there was no pressure whatsoever I just passed the 11+. Even at grammar school only the brightest were expected to get 9 O'Levels and go to university. I left at 16 and did a secretarial course and an OND. Started a degree but left after a couple of terms - then went to finishing school . I was never ever regarded as university material - am 53 now and have professional quals and an MBA. But, I was well educated and I was expected to have the skills to earn my own living and I was numerate and literate.

When I started work the well educated bit and the ability to hold a conversation, show interest and smile served me well. It is so sad that the value of a rounded, functional education has been lost at the expense of a points driven grading system which results in pieces of paper being awarded in too many cases to the unemployable.

Put out a report based on dodgy statistics criticising whatever they are targeting. Then flog it off to one of their mates under the radar.

It's becoming this government's MO.

The social issues of our country are evident in schools and it takes years of dedication to break down a generational problem of low aspirations in a family. Culturally, we have never really sold education to ordinary workforce - is changing slowly. Hence, many middle class families opt out of comps.

We had to use a comp for our DS with a history of SEN. Fab school, great ofsteds, very highly regarded. problem is always the behaviour of a few which is sad. He did well except in GCSe where there was disruption. A level seems much better where they can send away the naughties!! Sad. So many resources are needed to tackle poor social skills and low aspirations in pupils. Possibly we do the less academic a disservice with our curriculum.

and to Boneybackjefferson. Just love it!

I'm sure many on here will also be castigating social workers while spending their bank bonus.

My dd went to a top 100 cofe school for two years. The results are very good although declining. After two years we moved her because of low expectations around the cohort that entered on open places and whose behaviour was poor and disruptive and about whom the school would not deal. The teaching staff were on the whole delightful, professional and hard working but somewhere in there there was an ugly culture and dd was not thriving. There were also pockets of poor teaching that were denied and not managed. For example in Year 8 in maths dd achieved brilliantly but only because we picked up the problem and had the £35 per week to pay for a private tutor. What of the children in the state system whose parents can't do that and are switched off one of the most important subjects for life.

We are articulate parents who did our best to work with the school; if we were beaten then I do think there is a huge problem out there that is not being dealt with.

Our dc went to a state primary. About one third of the primary went to the independent sector after Y6 (earlier for the boys generally), half went to the local state schools and the remainder to local selectives. It would be an interesting exercise to meet up with them all at 30 to see what happened to them all.

Sorry no it is not true at all.

No it is true at all

So, just to be clear, it's not true that all a school has to do to jump successfully through the OfSTED hoops is to get as many GCSEs Cs as possible?

As Arisbottle says, my DS' school (London Comp) made it clear from the start that they would be stretched within their ability. No one was going to be allowed to slack but they also acknowledge that not all kids have strong academic ability and that there are other options for them.

My DS went to a high-achieving primary and was middle of the road. At Secondary he is shining and it's done wonders for his confidence and inspires him to work harder.

To their target not my, although it can feel like my target

As I said I am under pressure to get every student to my target grade, regardless of that target.

I run extra classes just for C/D borderline s but I also run A* classes and groups to help students get that B grade - which in my school is much more of an issue than the C/D borderline.

I think some people are just keen to see teachers as mediocre people who focus in middle of the road targets to the cost of cep everyone else. Not sure why.

Yeah, it's bollocks!

So all this stuff about aiming to get Cs for everyone and Cs being the goldstandard is the rubbish it appears to be?

No Ofsted would not be happy, I have just got home from the pub so have just have a few so don't take wat I say as gospel . But our children finishing key stage three at a level 5 would be targeting for a grade C, certainly not gaining a level 5 at the end of key stage 2. They would be aiming for about a grade B, maybe A.

Arisbottle- so can you confirm that OFSTED would not be happy if your school was aiming to get kids who were level 5 on entry to C at GCSE?

WHERE IS SEEKER!

Talkin, I hope you saw my post!

LOL @ Talkinpeace - thanks for the 'advice' but I think I will happily comment at my will on mumsnet