There's a "culture of low expectation" in secondary schools. Do you agree?

There's this thing about 'low expectations'. I went back to teach in the comp I was educated in. The teachers said at the time I was a pupil, the biggest demand on a teacher was to control the class i.e. keep them from throwing chairs around the room. Expectations were nothing to do with achievement. 10 years later the expectation was 'we know have to get stuff into their brains'. Panic stations!!

Same kids, different expectations. With all this target-based culture, I want to ask: Do the kids benefit? Are they happier? Are they more successful?

Not sure where I'm going with this. I suppose I just think it a bit naive to throw the buck at the teachers and demand to know why Didums is not achieving, when there's a whole lot going on in Didum's life outside the classroom.

Too many parents are relying on the schools to ensure that their children are stretched.

My taught my son (Summer born) how to read when he was in year 1, as
i realized that if i relied on the school , there was a possibility that he would leave Primary school unable to read or write. I also ensure that my children learned their tables, read regularly etc.
Parents have to start taking responsibility for the education of their children.

The problem with the KS2 exams is that children are coached for months in order to pass the exam. The children are then given artificially inflated grades which do not reflect their true ability. The teachers in secondary school are then expected to ensure that a child who achieves level 5 at the end of KS2 gets a grade A at GCSE.
The problem is with the examination system and the pressure on primary school teachers to get as many level 5's as possible.
Children who attend grammar schools, faith schools and independent schools tend to do better, because their parents are interested in their education and therefore will do their utmost to ensure that their children do well. The teaching in these schools is not superior , but there is definitely an expectation that the children can achieve grade A's.
IMHO, parental input/interest is key to whether a child achieves academically.

I am sorry to hear that jellycat. Did you think of moving him in year 9? Did you put your reservations in writing to the head copied to the governors noting your concerns about lack of senco support and asking for details of the evidence on which the decision was made and an action plan detailing the steps that would be taken to get back on track re his potential. Schools get away with it because parents don't kick up enough fuss in my opinion.

To be honest my experience of primary isn't that much better. My DD1 is L4 (Y3) across the board and the teacher has said categorically that they will not stretch her or teach her L5 stuff until at least Y5. So she has at least another full academic year where she will be able to stretch herself or at home but will not be taught anything else new. This is because they are mainly focussed on getting everyone to L4 and L5 by end of Y6.

They don't even bother with L6 in Y6, so there is no incentive to stretch my DD or any other child like her. I am curious how they get away with it from an Ofsted point of view, but they do. I suppose they can always say that my DD "plateaued" for a year or two. I am sure this is not the only school in the country where this is happening.

Haven't had time to read all of thread, but i completely agree with the Ofsted report..

DS2 and his Primary school worked really hard to get him from being well below average in all subjects (he's Dyspraxic which was spotted in the Reception year) to above average upon entering Secondary school..

In years 7 and 8 he stayed in the top set for English and Maths but received no help to maintain that standard from the head SENCO when he started to struggle, we lost count of how many teachers came and went, in most cases we didn't even know their names.. He was then zoomed down from top to the bottom sets in everything in year 9, following no discussion with me. He was bored beyond belief and said it was a joke, saying he was just doing lessons he did years ago.
Following many irate phone calls i got him moved up a set in English and Maths, his latest English teacher has told me she's shocked and confused by the high standard of his work and comprehension given the schools previous decision.
However, now in Year 10, he is in sets where the best he can hope to achieve with his given exam papers is a C grade.
School failure is putting it lightly IMO.. He's treading water at 15, we are just waiting to get him into Further Ed next year so that he can repeat everything, and get the grades he's capable of..

What a complete waste of time! Luckily he's not the only boy the school has buggered up and failed, otherwise his confidence would've been in shreds by now.

Yep, OFSTED are spot on.

posts like those form dashoflime should come with a date stamp.
How long ago did this happen?
In what context was thsi said?

teaching today is a different from what it was 2 yrs ago, its a lot different from five years ago and a world away from what it was 30 years ago.

Statements that start with "when I was at school" are in the fanatsy land as those of gove.

'ds is at a very strong primary where they really do stretch the children and make excellent use of data to spot where children aren't achieving as they should be/are able to. While making sure the kids have lots of fun and interesting stuff to do as well'

My DS is too edam and I'm a Gov at the school. He's not achieving his potential despite being level4/5 in year 4 - mainly because there is very little dialogue between him and his teacher imho. Also she is not as 'knowledgable' (although she will obviously have much more 'life' experience) as he is about certain aspects of science and instead of helping him to broaden his ideas she attempts to reign him in. That said, she is the least effective teacher at this school.

Or, in the version favoured by my father-two people on a train-

"Is this Wembley?"
"No, it's Thursday"
"So am I, let's go for a drink"

I have no idea what this thread is about any more- does this happen often?

ds is at a very strong primary where they really do stretch the children and make excellent use of data to spot where children aren't achieving as they should be/are able to. While making sure the kids have lots of fun and interesting stuff to do as well - it's not a Gadgrindian 'thou shall not enjoy education' drilling approach of the kind Gove appears to favour.

I gather from friends whose children have gone up to the nearest secondary - which is very well regarded and gets good grades - that there is a LOT of repetition in the first year. I don't know whether that is because ds's primary teaches beyond what other schools do, or because the secondary isn't as switched on, or what it's like beyond the first year of secondary. But it's a tad worrying as that's where ds will probably go as well.

It reminds me of something I say to the DC from time to time:

DC: "I'm thirsty"
Me: "I'm Friday, pleased to meet you"

I absolutely categorically mean 'nothing' by it, it's just funny . Same probably goes for the teacher making the BARRISTA comment.

Lighten up, beatback........!

Also very bright people with first class honours degrees. Not that people who have not got a C in English G.C.S.E are functionally illliterate either.

The coment "BARRISTA" is a totally ofensive and pathetic coment, it is demeaning kids who will be lucky to even get a job at "STARBUCKS". Is the joke saying its the end of the world if you end up in a coffee shop. They are very many people working in cofee shops who have been let down by education.

It's up the with "what do you say to an English Graduate?", molecule. Presumably the teacher assumed your dd would have heard it before?

If she had never heard of a 'barrista' then the play on words would have been totally lost on her, so no wonder she was cross/wondering why the teacher made such an odd remark.

Dd is at a friend's so I can't ask, but think dd took it to be pickled's scenario 2. It might be an urban myth curlew, but dd certainly told me this is what happened, and I didn't in anyway mean it as a teaching bashing tale. Dd, up to that point didn't even know what a barrista was, so at least she improved her vocabulary that day.

In retrospect it probably was a joke, dd doesn't have much of a sense of humour, especially when it involves herself, and as up to that point in the discussion the other children had wanted to be plumbers, builders, nursery workers etc, it did kind of fit in.

Er, I think we're agreeing, pckledsiblings, aren't we?

I'm lost now curlew, are you saying that the teacher shouldn't have made the joke???

curlew I rest my case - even ROFL.

Scenario 1: Molecule's Dd says 'barrister', teacher hears 'barrister' and goes on to make joke

Scenario 2: Molecule's Dd says 'barrister', teacher hears 'barrista' and goes on to ask relevant question

"can well imagine my DH closing an interview pretty sharply with a prospective pupil who talked about barristahs and what his or her objectives were for the fewchah."

Let's hope he's not involved in recruitment, then

"I am fairly certain that it was a joke but as that is inconsistent with Molecule's Dd being 'furious' and was posted as an example of low aspirations I thought it worth 'mentioning'.

Do you have a problem with that rationale curlew?"

I do actually. Because I find it impossible to believe that it was anything but a joke, and as the owner of a serious minded teenager myself, I can see mine not getting it and being "furious" about this too. And there are so many urban myths and "I have been reliably informeds" about how rubbish teachers it seems a shame to add another one.

I mean the point generally curlew - I would wish your neighbours child the very best but that doesn't mean the system is effective. The child's aptitude and enthusiasm should be taken into account.

I read the barrister comment differently to be honest and in a way that links back to my argument about education v quals. Did the girl make herself clear? Did she say barrister or barista or just a poorly enunciated version of one or the other. I can well imagine my DH closing an interview pretty sharply with a prospective pupil who talked about barristahs and what his or her objectives were for the fewchah.

I hope the teacher's point was taken on board - it may have needed to be. Young people need to be aware that life successes are about more than paper qualifications.

And yes three masters - addicted I think and thought it gave her the right to progress professionally.

There may be typographical errors above btw - on phone (and in the bath)

I am fairly certain that it was a joke but as that is inconsistent with Molecule's Dd being 'furious' and was posted as an example of low aspirations I thought it worth 'mentioning'.

Do you have a problem with that rationale curlew?