There's a "culture of low expectation" in secondary schools. Do you agree?

This is the end result of comps failing able students: leading universities being asked to make offers to state school pupils with lower grades who potentially could have achieved better results had they had more input from their schools. www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10121834/Universities-must-recruit-3700-more-state-school-students.html
So now the universities have to put on the remedial teaching and potentially damage their academic standing in the international league tables by having to accept lower calibre students.

Thanks peeps.

I'm still struggling to understand how agreeing with an official report on a thread started by MNHQ is me stirring things up but hey ho, sticks and stones....

But back to the OP....

Who the heck put you in charge eviltwins?

Telling people that they offer nothing to the debate! You make yourself ridiculous.

This is a discussion site habba and certainly is open to all to give their views, it isn't a teachers only site. Your opinions are as relevant as any one else's. Most will agree that bullies have no place in education or on this site.

Do you? Ah well, I can live with that.

The OP is quoting Ofsted as saying that there is a culture of low expectations in UK non selectives. Whenever there is a thread about sink schools parents posts about problems with their teachers. There are currently various active threads about bad teachers.

I support those views and that makes me someone who is trying to stir up trouble on this thread??? I find it seriously worrying that someone as aggressive as you is actually a teacher.

convincing

I just find your contributions to threads like this a but pointless. You don't seem to have much knowledge, understanding or experience of the education system and you rarely make a reasoned argument. Why bother? This thread is a discussion about a specific issue. You haven't really contributed and, yes, your comments smack of deliberately trying to stir. Your only point seems to be to claim that committed teachers who don't allow clever children to under-achieve are not typical. However, the only evidence you offer is that there are other threads on MN about DC having a poor time at school. It's not the most convicting argument.

I don't agree with you therefore I am trying to stir up trouble????????/

Obviously there are good and bad teachers just like there are good and bad employees in every job. I find it galling, though that stories of bad teachers are accepted (by you, Habba whilst stories of good teachers are pooh-poohed as not representative. You have popped up on a few education threads recently and seem to be determined to stir up trouble. I don't get it. What's your problem?

EvilTwins - there are several active threads about teachers failing someones DC, one of a teacher bullying a DC, one asking advice on how to complain about the HM etc etc so please can the moral outrage.

Your colleagues are not the whole education system. All you are able to say is that all the teachers you know are committed to the job. If all teachers were similarly committed then why are so many reports scathing about education standards in this country? There is a limit to how much blame you can lay at the feet of Gove and his friends.

Sorry, not until after a fair few resits of GCSE and AS that should read

It's true in our family.. Our elder two dc were well taught at primary level and then revised that same work in yr 7 while everyone else from the other feeder schools caught up and generally expectations re handwriting, homework ( the odd poster or similar ) and work in general were very very low. The teachers were always pleased with them , as they were more worried about the lower achieving dc in the school. Meanwhile dc became very bored and were quite happy to see themselves at the same level as their friends.. Ie did not by this point even want to stand out as clever.

Went to state sixth form college and excelled there in the end , but not after a few resist of GCSE and AS .

After I got a PhD I had a job that involved a huge amount of lugging heavy equipment, driving and digging (physical geography).

Talkinpeace. I would never denigrate someone digging holes or building roads because some of my friends familys made "MILLIONS OF POUNDS" building roads or sewage works though they made sure their kids went to good Schools and Universities. Coming over from Ireland in the 60s they built up fantastic business,and some of them are now among some of the "RICHEST" people in the country. My best friend who im not going to name is one of the best "BUSINESS WOMAN" in the north west 15 years ago she was living in a caravan now she gives lectures and talks all over the country and is always winning awards her bussiness is based on using your hands her business turns over 10 million a year and employs 100 people which is a fantastic achievement from a caravan in 15 years so i would never denigrate anyone using their hands for labour.

I was so saddened and shocked when I was teaching year 4 children and was chatting to one of the 9 year-old girls in the class. She was talking about what she wanted to do after leaving school and how her sister worked in a travel agent's and got good deals on holidays. I said something like "You never know, when you are older you might decide you'd like to go to university." (She was a bright child). She looked at me absolutely horrified and said "I'm not going there miss; that's for them posh people!"

lebfg / beatback
One of my clients digs holes. That is his skill. He can barely read or write but he loves digging - in the rain, in sewage, he does not care.
And because he's good - working around pipes and weird stuff
he makes best part of £30k a year
digging holes
he has not got a single paper qualification except his driving licence

BUT
He's making his kids be good enough at maths and reading that they have more options ....

Lebfg. My background is Catering,and all my family and extended family are either in Catering or nursing so i am quite aware about vocational careers. If you want to work Christmas Day Boxing Day New Years Eve for below average pay even if management then catering is for you if you do not want to then stay away from Catering.

Ah but some have a really good energy
there is one that DH has been to a few times in the midlands and he just loves it - the buzz in the corridors of happy engaged kids is phenomenal

but yes, I wish Ofsted stopped worrying about the shape of hedges and REALLY got their teeth into bullying, class control, teacher CPD and mentoring as THAT would help the weaker schools get stronger

talkinpeace, saying that schools have an 'energy' is a kind way of putting it. I am not a delicate flower by any means and I have felt frightened by that energy a number of times. It is like something is simmering just under the surface about to erupt. The Head of the school that I am talking about is supposed to be 'inspirational' and he really knows how to talk the talk but there is such huge resentment for him at the school by pupils other than those in the top sets.

This school is in Suffolk which is struggling by comparison with other counties. It has its fair share of dedicated excellent teachers and any number of fabulous extra curricular things going on. What it doesn't have is a rigorous system for dealing with poor discipline.

Arisbottle

I would say that most choose a vocational subject because they want to but some do not.

In mumzy's senario I suspect that non academic pupils will be forced to take vocational subjects.

You've clearly never worked in an abattoir...or in farming beatback. I think people can be awfully judgemental when it comes to 'applied' careers - you know, ones where you have to use your hands. I've never understood this. These implicit and explicit messages given to children about applied professions lead to pupils disregarding what could actually be very appropriate career choices for some.

Catering has to be the worst industry in the world, ok if you are a student needing money to see you though. If you are not the next jamie oliver it has to be the worst career ever. Has anyone seen the report in the Sunday Times this morning about poor white kids with the worst achievement. P.S "NEVER ADVISE ANY KID IN TO CATERING"

pickledsiblings
interestingly because he goes to so many schools - and because he's not an inspector they are not putting on a 'front' for him - he sees things like that a LOT.
He was at a school that had just been praised in the national press and it took him literally minutes to realise it was a disaster waiting to happen : the odure interacted with the ventilation device only a few weeks later.
There is an 'energy' in schools ..... Inspectors are unlikely to ever see it because of who they are.

If they didn't want to study those subjects they would not choose them. IME when a child chooses a vocational subject it is precisely because it is something they want to do.