Has anybody successfully tutored for the 11+ completely by themselves(need reassurance)

Blueskies- obviously preparation is essential. However. It's not preparation you'd get in any state school. You'd have to do it whatever sort of primary school your child went to, so don't worry about that.

Yellowtip- did you read to your children? Encourage them to read? Did they see you reading? That's what I meant by "bookish". Not discussing Proust over the tea and madeleines!

Yes in that context I think you would be bonkers Blueskies. As things stand you don't get credit in the 11+ for coming from a rubbish school.

gazzalw we're in a superselective area too and I think your approach sounds very measured. I'm talking about the mad and obsessive levels of prep which some describe. My DC would have told me where to get off.

"Well I think the clue is in your DS wanting to do the work and wanting to go to a grammar school. I think you may find that, regardless of his attending a poor-performing school, with your help and his motivation he will achieve his goal!!"

Completely agree with Gazzalw
OP,. the fact that you son is motivated is the biggest asset he has, many of the DC entering will we doing it because their parents want to - self-motivation is the key.
I would second what others have said, ie make sure you and he are completely familiar with the exam format and types of questions, and then closer to the time do under time pressure.
If your dad wants to contribute to the finances, there are tutors who run mock exams, under exam conditions, which is a good thing, because then the 'real' thing is not so scary.
Even better, if there are other schools in the locality with tests earlier than the school he wants, worth registering him, again for the practice. You can register for many indies for £50 a time, which is money well spent to get real exam conditions... we did this with DD, had no intention of going to any of them, just exam practice...

Wrong seeker. Which is why the Ofsted definitions are being tightened up.

"I have to say that I do find the intensity of some of the schedules for preparation described on MN wholly unnecessary and over the top. Surely a lot of the DC rebel?"

I think it depends where you live. I don't think we would have even done practice papers at all with DS if we lived in an area where the 11+ was taken as a matter of course, but living in an area with not brilliant comps and knowing that DS was deemed to be 'of grammar school standard', with four super-selectives in nearby Boroughs (but with applicant levels at 14 per place) it was necessary to do some familiarisation with the types of papers etc.... All of DS's friends who did the exams with him, did at least some Bond papers prep, regardless of socio-economic background. That wasn't done at all via school (whose Head was actively against hothouse education as she calls it) but with parental input.

seeker your vision of education is so circular that I can't get my head around it. I don't think it's about 'bookish' parents at all. I think it's about engaged parents. Anyone can be engaged and interested. We certainly don't spend our time sparring verbally over the kitchen table or discussing books or doing anything which anyone could possibly say was in the least bit intellectually pretentious. The 11+ doesn't require that sort of stuff.

No it isn't. "Satisfactory " means just that. That list of failings, unless dispute all of that they get good results, would not get a '"satisfactory" rating.

I would say that tutoring is a formalised arrangement which requires the subject(s) studied to be the sole focus of a paid for session. It is in some ways probably easier to consider if one thinks of learning to play an instrument. There is a world of difference twixt Mum or Dad saying "oh that was a duff note/too fast/too slow..." when a child is practising at home and the more focused and expert approach afforded by someone trained musically.

We decided we could help DS with some practice papers because we are graduates (but not in English or Maths and of course not in NVR/VR). But DS fitted what practice he did do around his hectic schedule. He certainly never sat in total silence being timed and we certainly never set down to spend time on specific NVR/VR issues. Much to our shame, because he was always so awkward about doing English we ignored it completely. With maths we helped with the stuff that they hadn't yet covered at school but as far as I recall he said very little of it was included in his various 11+ exams anyway.

I think that amongst the monied, chattering classes there is cache and kudos attached to being able to say "our DCs' tutor". And if the 11+Forum comments are anything to go by, there is a military precision operation to the way the best tutors focus their endeavours with their 'pupils'.

NVR may be the one that can be advanced by tutoring- but the VR is the one where the children of educated "bookish" parents are most automatically advantaged.

But that is the sort of school rated as 'Satisfactory' seeker.

That's not "satisfactory"!

Cecily it depends if you're approaching the question as one of access or one of point scoring vis a vis other parents. I'm not particularly interested in the latter. Of course many, many parents will be better placed than 'professional' tutors to give guidance with the 11+. I'm quite sure that lots of 'professional' tutors are rubbish.

I think a lot of people would argue about your interpretation of the 'Satisfactory' rating seeker.

None of my DC had to take a NVR test (which is the one most advantaged by tutoring), so only VR was in issue and that's just like a game tbh. And my understanding has always been that the whole of the Y6 maths curriculum was included so that all DC had a fair crack at the paper, regardless of the order in which the topics at their school were taught.

I have to say that I do find the intensity of some of the schedules for preparation described on MN wholly unnecessary and over the top. Surely a lot of the DC rebel?

Miranda tutoring is not tutoring if parents help their children and that help is not the sort to create social disadvantage. Which is all that matters, in terms of equal access to grammars. Sure, children who have parents interested in their education are at an advantage but there's a very clear distinction between professional and parental tutoring. It would be very undesirable to encourage parents not to help their children.

I don't see how there can be a clear distinction between professional and parental tutoring. Surely some parents are just as good or even better than professional tutors. The fact that no money changed hands does not change that. Or are you saying that parents can't possibly be competant at tutoring for an exam which is, after all, taken by 10 year olds.

I do value education. That is not the same as automatically valuing a selective school over the local alternative providers.

One of the things I most dislike about my daughter's school is that there are respects in which it is actually not an institution where this thing called 'education' is particularly well understood or valued. It is an exam factory and a conduit to Russell Group universities.

So what is tutoring?

Of course parental input will vary seeker. Some parents are going to value education more than others and some won't be in a position to help. It was ever thus and one can't proselytize to parents who have no particular wish for their DC to go to a grammar - that's their call. For those parents who would like their DC to have a shot, the papers are freely available. To say that that's 'tutoring' is a nonsense.

My daughter also wanted to take grammar school entrance. Having seen some of the negative effects of tutoring, I knew that I would not go down that road.

The school itself advised against tutoring and suggested that prospective entrants might want to look at some of the generic practice papers by way of preparation.

This is exactly what we did. It was up to my daughter if she did the practice papers or not. I didn't stand over her or mark her.

I also made it very clear that the other alternative schools we looked at - and applied for - this was at a time when you didn't take the selective exam in September - had good things about them, and that I believed whichever school she went to she would be happy, make friends and do well.

She gained a place at the grammar school.

I think 11+ tutoring is such a niche thing that generally the school the child comes from is less important than you would think. (Oh, and don't forget that "satisfactory" actually means "satisfactory", not rubbish!). Schools don't teach VR or NVR. A lot of the maths required isn't covered by the curriculum until well into year 6 in any state school. Possibly the extended writing task, if there is one, might be better from kids from significantly better schools.

What is the difference between parental and professional tutoring, by the way?

Who is encouraging parents not to help their children?

However, it is disingenuous to pretend that all parents have an equal ability/inclination to help. You don't need professional tutors to perpetuate social disadvantage.