Come and tell me some of the benefits for children in going to a grammar school

My eldest son is at a grammar school

The Pros
He is quite eccentric, seen as something of an oddball and there are a few more children like him there
He struggles socially and therefore does not like the more interactive teaching that he had at the comp, he wants to sit in a classroom be told to open a book and answer the questions on page 2-4 and get on with it in silence - that is what he gets most lessons and therefore he is happy there.
He finds girls to be a complete mystery - despite having a mother and two sisters - and would rather not have to deal with them - the grammar is single sex.

I think a grammar works for my son as well as any school would be able to, it would drain the life from my other children.

mumble - I use to live in SE London. There were regular 'incidents' at the local ethnically mixed school between white gangs and black gangs. I have an Asian friend who lives in the east end of London. Their kids are often subject to racist comments from white classmates.

Racism exist even in multi cultural environments.

Pip,

Again, value add for grammars is statisically unreliable due to ceiling effects, which occur both in the 'intake' figures and in the 'final qualification' figures.

The highest a child has been able to be reported as, for the DfE statistics, at the end of year 6 is level 5. Many, if not most, of the pupils who start at a superselective will in fact be working well within Level 6 on arrival. Thus the school benefits because the children 'progress' a level or so on arrival, simply because the artificial ceiling is removed and they can be given the level they were all along.

On the other hand, the school misses out on the 'final qualification' figures, espcially at GCSE, because it does not differentiate between a child who just got an A or A* at the end of Year 11 and the child who in fact could have got 100% at the end of Year 9 but a qualification to show this is not available.

It makes VA hard to interpret for such schools.

Pip, what you need to do is find the schools on the DfE website here and compare the results for different groups of pupils - so what % of high, medium and low ability pupils does each school have, and what grades do they get?

It is a better means of comparison than top-level results alone, as these are often a reflection of the cohort and not of the school - it's not hard to get 100% A*-C if none of your pupils got lower than a Level 5 at the end of KS2, rather harder if 50% got less than Level 4!

I think it mostly reflects the innate ability :-) Last time I looked at the value-added score for my dd1's grammar school, it was basically nothing - possibly half a grade for one gcse.

But she didn't go there for the results, but for the company :-)

(I am not, by the way, suggesting that any of the groups of children described will necessarily do better at a grammar school - unless the grammar school is so selective as to effectively become a Special School for the exceptionally able, 1 in 10,000 types. Just that it is not necessarily true that all schools - of whatever type - are equally good for able children. Of 3 comprehensives in a single town, 1 may be more suited to him / her than another, and not necessarily because of their 'better results')

Reluctant "tall poppies" may do better at a grammar where everyone is academic or at least expected to be. Most grammars are single sex and there is evidence to show girls achieve more highly in a single sex environment especially at STEM subjects (which may or may not be important to you but many of the well paid jobs now require science, maths etc). Superselectives draw their students from a wide geographic area which can be good, however it may also mean your DD makes friends who live a long way away. However, although I was in that position myself, it encouraged independence as I travelled on public transport to meet up with them.

Russians, I agree - definitely a function of ability, character and peer group, as well as school.

Moderately able, hard working, group of similar friends - will definitely do well anywhere.

Moderately able, lazy, lack of any appropriate peer group at all - more doubtful.

Exceptionally able (1 in 10,000+ type stuff), socially inept/ ASD, shunned by peer group - may in fact do better in a school especially for children of exceptionally high ability.

DS attends the grammar school in our area. It is selective. It is definitely not white, middle class. It is very mixed.

We didn't choose because it was a grammar, but because it is the top performing school in our LA, better reslyts than the independants.

It would be much more convenient for DS to attend either of the local comps, which are walking distance. But he likes his school and is prepared to put up with early starts on public transport to go there.

Seeker if your child is able she will do well at any school

That's really not necessarily true, you know.

We faced a similar issue. DS, though passing for a highly selective grammar in the next town, attends the local comprehensive. For him (he has many ASD traits), continuity of friendships and maintaining a local friendship group was really important, and given that the schools are very similar in quality (yes, the grammar gets slightly better results BUT the difference in results is tiny given that one is highly selective and the other one is not) that was an over-riding feature for us. Another issue was that the comprehensive is mixed and the grammnar single-sex, and he flinched from the testosterone-filled macho-ness when we toured the single-sex schools - he is a gentle soul.

For DD, who is entirely NT and very socially adept, continuity of friendships is much less important, as she has the skills needed to make friendships wherever she goes. If she passes for the local super-selective, then we might well send her there. Equally, single- sex would not be an issue for her.

It really is a matter of looking at the individual schools, looking at the comprehensive's results for high achievers compared with the results of the grammar, considering journey and peer groups etc. Not all grammars are great - many rely on the excellent intake + minimal effort from staff = excellent output equation, whereas others go all out to do excellent input + fantastic input from staff = superlative output, though that is not always devinable from league tables.

I also don't really believe that for each individual bright child that where they go to school will make that much difference to their gcse results (A levels, I'm starting to have a different opinion). My daughters are in y11 and y10 and I'm really not expecting the grammar school one to do better than the other! I think what can be changed is how happy you are for those 5 years, which depends on the company.

If it's a super selective, then the chances are that the schools everyone else goes to will be nearly comprehensives, and will therefore have effective top sets.

It's very important that you check not just the academic aspects of the schools- if your child is able she will do well at any school. What you need to look at is the extra curricular stuff, at the pastoral care, at the atmosphere of the school, at the travel, and at where her friends are likely to be drawn from geographically. This last one looks trivial at this stage, but will become increasingly important as she becomes more independent.

Dd1 and ds are both at single sex grammars. Both very mixed, ethnically and financially.

Dd2 is at a good comp, with some of the highest results in the borough, which is much whiter and probably has a narrower financial range.

Just comparing their schools, as they're the only ones I know.

Pros of grammars:

in both grammar schools everyone has a locker in their classroom. At the comp, only y7 (possibly 8) have lockers, randomly scattered about the school. This may sound trivial, but it certainly makes a difference.

At the grammar schools, they get text books and can keep them for the year and bring them home. At the comp, no. Although lots of homework from both is from photocopied sheets.

Both the grammar schools, despite being smaller, offer more MFLs, plus Latin.

Academic expectations at the grammars are just higher, so even if you coast, you're coasting at a higher level.

Behavioural expectations are higher. People just don't really mess about at the grammars, whereas at the comp, even in the top sets, there's more disruption.

I don't actually have any cons, my kids are very happy at their grammar schools.

You also should consider your child's personality. If she's done well at primary school, will it be a discouragement or a challenge to be in a class full of clever kids? Dd1 has never really been bothered about comparing herself to other people, but dd2 finds being at or near the top of all her classes a real confidence boost.

Are you in a wholly selective area, or are you talking about a super selective grammar?

What % of children go to grammar school in your area?

at mumble's MC white comment

DC is mixed race and has had a lot of racism at the almost all white grammar.