DD Distraught at having to go to,a Upper School (BUCKS)

when i wass at grammar school doing badly was getting a "b", one B amongst the rest As and A*s. At As level I got A, B, C and head of sixth form said she was dissapointed in me!

Generally speaking, children do not do badly at grammar schools. Not in pure academic terms, anyway.

I can't speak now because thankfully I know very few DCs in grammar schools -but certainly when I failed (back in the dark ages!) they did badly at grammar schools, the woman I met last month was not unusual-she left with 1 O'level. She still however got a good job-the power of having been at a grammar school! A friend of mine, a perfectly intelligent woman, was put into a form named 'the remove' and virtually written off. A huge proportion left at 16yrs. However jobs were easy to get and in those days you could get jobs with O'levels that would need a university degree now. It is a different world.

I don't expect they do today because they have been tutored for the exam, organised by parents who fully intend them to do well. It is however absolutely true that the failures can do just as well-if not better.

It depends on the character of your DD-I am always spurred on by people saying I can't do something. Even today it is the best thing for me-e.g. a while ago I was planning a 10 mile run with my DS ,and privately wondering if I could do it, when DH said, in a concerned way, 'I think it is a bit much for you, exotic'. That was it-I said 'no, it is fine' and I went and did it!
If your DD isn't like that I would try other methods-e.g. bribery (something I am generally against but might help in this case).
It is all to do with attitude. Look into out of school activities too that keep her friendly with those who passed.

Generally speaking, children do not do badly at grammar schools. Not in pure academic terms, anyway.

However, children do frequently join grammar schools from non selectives in the 6th form and do well.

There were plenty of girls who did badly at grammar school. Plenty of girls came into grammar school from the Sec Mod in the 6th form and did well.

This is so true and yet something that is generally hidden and unfortunately not general knowledge among DCs.

So very close to the "pass mark" but a failure. Poor child. Shows so much about what is wrong with selection at 11. I went to one of the top grammar schools in Bucks, hated it and ended up doing a degree at a Poly (shock horror). There were plenty of girls who did badly at grammar school. Plenty of girls came into grammar school from the Sec Mod in the 6th form and did well. Move further out along the Thames Valley to avoid them.

I've got an 11 year old girl who will be going to a selective private school. Sadly I suspect it us the exact sort if thing that would come out if the mouths of some of her classmates who would use it against other children. Hopefully not dd especially as she has a same age cousin who will be going to a very different type of school and will hopefully do well there.

Edna- it's very important for your dd to work on her friendships between now and September- strengthening the ones with kids who are going to both schools. It is very difficult to maintain friendships when you go to different schools-so she may need to think about who among the ones going to the upper school she likes.

The grammar school does not give a direct route to work-I don't think that people realise that, at the moment, our shops, restaurants etc are staffed by graduates, with very good degrees from very good universities, who earning money while trying desperately to get onto the bottom rung of their chosen career.

Has she seen round the school? Met successful present and past pupils?

It's one of the things their parents will have said to many of them to get them to do practice papers. I kid you not.

If it's children who have got into the grammar that are spouting the dole rubbish, I'd count my blessings that my child was going elsewhere.

Have you considered trying to get her into a private school with a bursary?

"OP, I would also question your DD about where she got the 'just end up on the dole' idea. While, if she was hoping for the grammar school, it is reasonable for her to be disappointed, this just sounds like such an odd thing for an 11 year old to come out with."

Sadly not, in a wholly selective area. People who haven't experienced it have no idea how awful can be.

That would seem to be the case, as there are so few higher ability pupils, that their results cannot shown in the stats. Of the middle ability pupils, 45% get the 5 A*-C etc.

OP, I would also question your DD about where she got the 'just end up on the dole' idea. While, if she was hoping for the grammar school, it is reasonable for her to be disappointed, this just sounds like such an odd thing for an 11 year old to come out with.

became not because

Your DD will be fine if she keeps the right attitude.

This is true. It is why I am so against the 11+ because it does make you feel a failure at a very young age, whatever anyone else tells you.
I failed and did fine and so did so many other successful people that I know.

What you need to do is foster an 'I will show them' attitude to prove that the exam was wrong.
My parents were in the same position-if they could have afforded private they would have done, but we had to go with the system. At the time we planned the alternate route which ended up at the 6th form of the grammar school and then university. That is what I followed -fuelled by the fact that I would do better than some that passed -and I did because many left at 16yrs which they used to do from grammar school in my time.
It is easy to find success stories-you can go to friends reunited-find old secondary moderns and find ex pupils with very high flying careers and use them as examples. Fire her up to refuse to accept the life that she thinks she has mapped out and aim for the top.
It is to do with attitude-if she gives in she will have a self fulfilling prophesy
see here
I have a friend at the moment whose son failed-he is in his final year of a maths degree at a very good university-he isn't unusual.
She has failed-she has the school chosen-she can't change that but she can certainly change the outcome. And there must be others like her in her chosen school-I am still friends with my two best friends that I met at secondary modern-both very successful women. I also have a friend from when I was younger (found on friends reunited) and she ended up in a 'sink' secondary modern and yet because a teacher specialising in dyslexia and has two daughters-one a dentist and one a vet.
Do not let her give in or they system has won-use the failure to spur her on. It can be a huge advantage when it comes to applying for university and jobs because it shows determination and grit.

I suppose another way to look at it would be to say that, if 30-35% of the cohort go to grammar, then the 'adjusted A*-C figures', taking into account the removed children, are around 60% - ie the 'equivalent comprehensive' sould get around 60% (which would not put it at the bottom of league tables in most comprehensive counties by any means), and therefore the apparently low 27% is much more a feature of the 'removed top set' than it is a reflection of the school's actual quality.

I was wondering how much research the OP had done herself to help her daughter, teacher- before I started posting loads of stats!

OP- it does look like a challenging school- but 27% get the magic A*-Cs in a catchment where the "top set" is off in another school, so it's doing something right. It's tough- no denying it- but there is no reason why your dd should not be in that 27%. You might have to be a bit more proactive than you would if she had gone to the grammar, but it's perfectly doable- if she wants to

Seeker, you may be able to get useful information for the OP out of
School data - especially because I know that you are a governor at a SM elsewhere.

What % of kids get 5 A*-C GCSE with English and Maths at the school?

This is why I hate the eleven plus! I've taught in grammar and uppers in Bucks, and I can honestly say that the school is largely what the hold makes of it. The uppers I taught at had kids going to Oxbridge and kids going on to do nothing, from the same teachers: what mattered most was the attitude of the students and their parents. I've seen shocking teaching at grammars and excellent teaching at uppers, and vice versa. Of course the grammars get better results - they cream off the top! I think the problem is worse in bucks than other grammar areas because the stigma seems to be so much worse.

Your DD will be fine if she keeps the right attitude. I got much better results than my DH, because I worked and he didn't. I went to a comprehensive in a grammar area. He went to a very highly regarded grammar.

because last year only 27% got 5A to C in English and Maths*
And your dd will be one of those who do get A* to C, and that's all that matters in the end.

High Wycombe is a difficult area - with the grammar schools and the excellent, internationally-known private schools...

... the place is great if you have money or are naturally bright. But not so, if you are just in the middle.

OP - plenty of kids there who get into GS have been tutored extensively or went to private schools for their primary years that plain and simple only had one aim in mind. Can you get her onto a school out of the county? I heard some people could (but not sure how)?!?

As a parent the thing that would concern me most with that school is the poor added value score and the poor quality teaching. If you have no other alternative (ie no hope of passing 12+) then you may need to consider external tutoring to support your dd's learning.

It is all very well saying that a bright child will achieve anywhere, they won't if the teaching is poor (which is what the latest Ofsted report says). I and my classmates had to teach ourselves our A level history syllabus because one teacher was writing a book and the other was deputy head and would spend the few lessons we had with him teaching us how to do the Times crossword. We were at a Bucks grammar that regularly got pupils into Oxbridge.