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So we did not get DS1 into any of the Catholic Boys Secondaries, and the reason was the baptism criteria. This will also be the case for ds2

167 replies

PureQuintessence · 17/03/2013 09:28

The schools did not take into account our explanations for not baptizing ds1 within the first 6 months. (Which was my dads stroke and helping mum coping and getting dad on his road to recovery was more important to me than a baptism at the time - we organized a blessing for ds1, one which is used for a child that will be baptized, so a stop gap thing sort of)

We are ok for schools for now, as ds1 has accepted an offer to an independent.

But what about ds2?

No matter how often we go to Church, and observe holy days of Obligation, he was also not baptized until it was convenient to get the family together, while visiting my home town. It will mean that there is no point even trying, as this is so important.

And do I even want to send my precious children to schools that have no empathy for people who struggle? I seriously thought we had heaps of compassionate grounds, and our priest said so in his reference, that there were compassionate reasons to accept our son. But no.

Maybe this thread should be in Aibu or Religion / Philosopy but it has made me really question our options and life choices, and whether spending 30 k a year for education for both boys is going to be worth it.

OP posts:
messybedhead · 17/03/2013 13:24

I know somebody who won an appeal for Sacred Heart who had the same circumstances as you. They did have the backing of their priest though, who IIRC attended the appeal with them.

Timetoask · 17/03/2013 13:21

Really? I had no idea of this rule. My dc were baptised at 12 months old because I wanted to go back to my home country...

prh47bridge · 17/03/2013 13:21

Distance and the fact that the school is oversubscribed are irrelevant for appeals. Your argument would be that the school has made a mistake by failing to treat your son as baptised Catholic. Assuming your son would have been admitted if he had been treated as baptised Catholic the only question the panel will have to consider is whether or not the school were wrong.

Copthallresident · 17/03/2013 12:41

pure You have my sympathy. It might be worth looking into this more closely. A lot of Catholics coming from overseas come from countries where it is not the practise to baptise early, I think Poland is one, and of course Gunnersbury's catchment has a large Polish community. The Diocese argued that the increase in the need for school places amongst the Polish community in Ealing was going to result in Richmond parents no longer being able to access out of borough Catholic Schools to justify the creation of St RR, but that doesn't work if the Polish community can't access the schools because they didn't get baptised in time! If Gunnersbury are being flexible on the rule but Cardinal Vaughan are not might that be grounds for appeal?

Personally though I have no problem with providing schools for people seeking a Catholic education for religious or cultural reasons I do not agree with faith based criteria because it makes hypocrites of parents and unintentionally discriminates against parents who do not have the resources to meet the criteria. I am sorry that you are one of the latter. Ironically we have two DDs baptised before six months to please the grandparents and DH could have taken them along to church to meet the other criteria, and the fathers who taught him claimed they could use their influence to get the DDs into a Catholic School when they were trying to persuade us that we should, but in terms of my morality at least we are definitely far less worthy of a place at a Catholic School than you. We at least went through the trauma of not getting a primary place and experiencing the financial stress of having to opt for a private education rather than compromise our moral values.

tiggytape · 17/03/2013 12:02

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notfluffy · 17/03/2013 11:53

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23balloons · 17/03/2013 11:40

If it was me I would do it. You sound like you have a case. Do you need to register by a certain time? Even if you are not sure you could register an appeal and if you feel you can't do it you can call the school and cancel. At least then you will have the chance,if you don't register you won't have the choice.

Sometimes in life you just have to fight for what you want. Of course I don't know your personal commitments but it would definitely be worth it if you won and it does sound like you have a case. I think there are lots of past threads with great advice about appealing.

Good luck with whatever you decide x

PureQuintessence · 17/03/2013 10:29

There is a sibling policy, just not sure I can handle the stress.... Sad

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23balloons · 17/03/2013 10:12

I still think it would be worth appealing especially if the school you have been offered would cause those problems for him. Are any of his friends going to your preferred Catholic school?
Last year a parent at my son's school made an appeal for her step son, baptised late baptism etc (not CV) due to the fact mother didn't want Catholic school, wanted grammar, boy didn't get grammar so father (recently convert to rc ) & step mother appealed. Long story but they did get the step son in on appeal. If you can stand the stress it might be worth it. Is there a sibling policy for ds2 though?

PureQuintessence · 17/03/2013 09:49

I thought I wanted a Catholic education, at the very least a Christian Ethos, or any good ethos, IYSWIM.

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 17/03/2013 09:48

I guess if there are limited places then they are going to have to get strict about applying their criteria. Perhaps there were already too many pupils who met the full criteria.

PureQuintessence · 17/03/2013 09:47

I dont think there is a point in appealing. It is the CVMS, which is our top choice and only one bus ride away, it is heavily oversubscribed. Gunnersbury is playing the distance card, as we are 5 miles away, and the furthers child last year was just 3 miles away.

The state option we have been given is 45 minutes away by bus, and for reasons of bullying and assaults not an option.

It is complicated. My son has spent his primary years badly bullied, or excluded by the kids in his class. I cannot send him to a school which is well known for bullying, and where kids are assaulted on the bus stop. My heart would break daily.

OP posts:
Rainbowinthesky · 17/03/2013 09:42

You do have to also ask yourself if you really want a catholic education. We played the game for ds but aren't for dd as other things have taken over and it's not so important to me now.

prh47bridge · 17/03/2013 09:42

You could, of course, try appealing for a place at the Catholic schools. Given the backing of your priest you would have a reasonable chance of success, particularly if he is the priest for the parish with which the appeal school is associated.

Rainbowinthesky · 17/03/2013 09:40

The trouble is all the other people who didn't get their son baptised within the time criteria will all have their own reasons too. There has to be a measurable criteria to select by. I know several people in your situation who all have equally valid reasons for not baptising in time but they can't all get in.

23balloons · 17/03/2013 09:39

That is tough. Can you appeal? Not all RC secondaries use baptism date though but obviously distance is taken into account. Near us you have 2schools not using that criteria,one is outstanding & very over subscribed, the other
not so good & you can get in with limited church attendance.

Is there no other state option? If not it looks like you will either need to pay or move house?

I would try appealing if it were me. I remember reading a few Adjudicator decisions about baptism date - it might be worth reading their findings for some ideas?

edam · 17/03/2013 09:36

It's rubbish, isn't it? YY, I get that they probably have lots of applications but that is really mean. Not the first time Catholic authorities have been harsh and unreasonable, though... the church does have a track record here. Although at least you have the ability to pay for private school.

(You'd drag my son to Catholic school over my dead body, but I sympathise with you on the unfairness).

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