What is in an accent?

I am not a Christian. I prefer an eye for an eye myself

And actually my hearing is terrible, inherited from deaf grandfather but I have never noticed it being selectively worse depending on accent.

Ronaldo Have you never heard of "judge not, lest you be judged" I was merely giving back, like for like.

DDs are just fine thanks, DD1 at elite uni and speaks well enough to have been chosen to demonstrate the fascination of her subject in a famous national museum this summer, even if she does occasionally betray her mothers origins with the odd flat vowel. Mostly however she sounds dead posh

You should never judge an old man with fat arthritic fingers by his ability (or lack of it) to type and know the keyboard well

If I were a child, you would never have dared make those comments. Shows you up for the people you are I suppose - behaviour is as behaviour does even when its a typeface here.

But I tell you what you go and expose your DC to whatever accents you like and I will keep teaching my DS to speak RP - or standard accent less English.

And we will meet up in 20 years and see who is laughing then and where our DC have got in life (when your hearing is like mine and you cant make out the words of that lovely gordie lilt anymore either).

Just wanted to say it's Huw Edwards.

Of course what we haven't explored the sexiness of accents. French men can be asking the price of a pint of milk and make my knees quiver, ditto Sean Bean in a Yorkshire accent or James McAvoy in the islands accent he adopted when I saw him in Macbeth this week (sexiness that even persisted through vomiting, murder and having his head chopped off)

And I could make out every word he said

I can speak with any accent like a native if you expose me to it for a couple of hours b ut doing so ( although not deliberate)was when I was young considered mimicary and even taking the p*ss It wasnt. So I decided to make sure I spoke clear unadulterated English. Its never held me back since then.

I love that Ronaldo can go on about the importance of speaking clear unadulterated English whilst not being able to write it

I expect Ronaldos Hong Kong and Singaporeans who had been in International Schools spoke with the same expat brat accent my own DDs spoke in, a sort of Aussie/US /Brit hybrid where every sentence ends with an annoying upward tone as if asking a question, and is liberally peppered with "sooo"s and "like"s. definitely not RP, but they are adaptable these expats

Yes, but you seem to be saying that everyone is better off speaking RP/standard English. That it is fundamentally better for every person's life choices. And I am saying that it is most definitely not when you live in parts of the country where it marks you out as being "different" rather than it being the norm, which is seems to be in your area/circle.

I don't mean that your child would be better not speaking standard English. I mean that you should not generalise from what suits you to what everyone else ought to do and value.

I suspect it will be very unlikely that he will ever need to have a regional accent or be disadvantaged by the form of English we speak to be brutally honest. Thosearethe circleswe move in and the ones I hope and expect him to remain in.Ofcourse no one can plan entirely but if he needs to change accent, he is a firstclass musician and so I imagine would pick up any accent if he needed.

I can speak with any accent like a native if you expose me to it for a couple of hours b ut doing so ( although not deliberate)was when I was young considered mimicary and even taking the p*ss It wasnt. So I decided to make sure I spoke clear unadulterated English. Its never held me back since then.

Surely you must see that in areas other than your own, being "different" and "not fitting in" are more likely caused by not having some version of the local accent?

But my DS is not going to school anywhere else and he needs to fit here and now. Neither do I want or need him elsewhere. There is plenty of time for that -and by then he will be secure in his own self and his own accent anyway and it wont matter.

Ronaldo - you say "I will not subject my DS to any kind of accent that can place him as different - why should I? DC need to feel they fit in."

Surely you must see that in areas other than your own, being "different" and "not fitting in" are more likely caused by not having some version of the local accent?

When we moved back up here, DS was considered to have an English accent. He quickly picked up a soft South-East-Scotland accent. It is polite, sounds educated, and is easily understood by everyone he meets. But it is in no way "RP" or "standard English".

It enabled him to fit in, and has in no way reduced his chances of "getting on in life".

Really?? You honestly have no Welsh/Scottish/American/South African/Australian/Indian etc, friends or work colleagues? I find that very hard to believe. You must work in the most parochial business in England

No we dont, and I have said it before in several threads. I find it hard to work out how so many seem to think that because they are exposed to multi cultural Britain so are the rest of us.

Multi cultural and accented Britain may goon around me but all of thoseI associate with,regardless of where they come from speak the same way.

I find in Canada ( where I spend a lot of time) , speaking proper English is an advantage. I also find at school speaking with a standard accent means most of our students from overseas - although they are a minority in the school,

(mostly Hong Kong and Singapore) speak the same accent too, having been taught it in international schools before they come to us.

it is true for a foreigner who has learned English, it can be quite deflating to go to the UK and not understand what is being said because the pronunciation is so different to what was taught in class. A British dc who had learnt German in school and then went to Bavaria could be in for quite a shock too. However, young people spend so much time on the internet watching videos so maybe they are becoming exposed to a lot of different English accents that way.

I have met Americans too who have told me they absolutely cannot understand English accents. It surprises me but some do seem to genuinely find a lot of English accents unintelligible.

I don't think having a regional accent disadvantages anyone these days. No doubt in the past it marked you out as uneducated to those who considered themselves above you. That must have changed or at least started to change in the 1960s. These days I think you do best with a light regional accent. It is what most people will easily understand and probably like. I struggle to understand people from Glasgow personally but most accents in the UK we are exposed to now via TV, radio, film so I don't think many people would genuinely struggle to understand each other.

Well, if we are talking about the 50s, the only type of English speech I really dislike is announcers' speech from the 50s (both Am and Br, invariably male); everything said that way sounds to me as smug and aggressive ignorance.

We speak OxfordEnglish ( as in the university not the place) in my house. As do all my friends and aquaintences and work colleagues.

Really?? You honestly have no Welsh/Scottish/American/South African/Australian/Indian etc, friends or work colleagues? I find that very hard to believe. You must work in the most parochial business in England.

@Ronaldo: but you do speak with an accent - RP. It's just one accent among many - that spoken by the middle classes in the South of England. It's also one that carries a lot of socioeconomic and class baggage which can be a distinct disadvantage in many circumstances - see how many public school-educated politicians tone down their RP accents in order to appear less patrician.

I would say the most neutral, widely understood accent is General American/Standard American English - it's the most widely spoken form of English and well understood as it's what most people who learn English as a second language learn.

in dont think that speaking with a strong accent signifies lack of intelligence, but I suspect not being able to decode strong accents does.

OK then meditrina - I stand corrected. We speak OxfordEnglish ( as in the university not the place) in my house. As do all my friends and aquaintences and work colleagues. My DS also speaks that. I call it RP ( so did
Trevor Mc Donald a few weeks ago on the raidio)

WhereI live and work - and amongst those who I associate with and socilaise with RP is the only accent used. I will not subject my DS to any kind of aaccent that can place him as different - why should I? DC need to feel they fit in. I think alot of people here havent a clue what RP actually is.

I am inclined to the view that it is best to apply a mode of speach that is clear in dictation and can be understood everywhere. I find RP fits that bill.

Whilst it is not politically correct I think RP has fewer negative associations that many regional speakers like to think.

I am not going to disadvantage my DS by using RP as it is still in use. In so doing I can maximise his chances of success.

And for the record, whilst I will never say anything publically unless its anonymous ( as here) I frequently turn off the radio and TV when I hear those wonderful regional accents as they irritate me todeath - and as I said earlier, I mis hear them. It gets to the point where I spend five minutes deciphering what I have heard and wondering if I want to see the programme announced or indeed can make sense of the news.

I much p refer the old Trevor McDonald sound of RP. I also find Hew Edwards,although he has a slight Welsh accent clear enough.

On the other hand channel four and five are ull of accents that grate on my ears and which I cannot hear clearly at all.

My objections are largely based on clarity ( or lack of it).

all accents change over time and vowel change is one of the major ones. You can easily note differences for instance in broadcasts from the 1i940s and 1960s yet the speakers may in both cases be using RP. There is also a sort of blending of RP with regional accents which is found all over the UK and becomes a sort of modified RP. It does still exist. I accept you don't see it that way though and classify the RP of the 1950s as the pure form if I understood you correctly.

If you just mean "non-localised" accent, that's a perfectly valid term; it doesn't make a non-RP accent into RP. Educated and standard (for want of better terms) speakers of English would speak something more like an Oxford accent (the university, not the place, I think!)

RP is an accent.

In the business world it is well known that accents generate perceptions, hence the use of Sean Bean in voiceovers and situating call centres in the north. The Yorkshire accent generates perceptions of honesty and straightforwardness.

And apparently greater intelligence, perhaps Ronaldo should be training his DCs to say bath and castle properly!! news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7329768.stm