Graveney - catchment area half 2012 distance!!

You don't get to choose which criteria you are applying under. Everyone takes the test and if there is a sibling present their name is entered on the application form. After the results are in they are placed according to which criteria they satisfy (or not).

GraveneyLady you say 4 did not get automatic sibling entrance in 2011 because they didn't score enough. Will that be the case going forward i.e siblings also need to score highly if 1st child got in on test?

Hi Graveneylady,

If you look at the intake figures for the past five years are there any trends or are there really no discernible patterns from which we can draw any conclusions on intakes/catchment areas etc.?

I guess if the past two and the 2014 intake mark a dip in the birthrate we wouldn't be looking at statistically significant data anyway?

Sorry that last paragraph was a rather long, punctuation-free sentence !

All but the out of Borough siblings of selective place pupils would have sat the Wandsworth Test anyway, wouldn't they?

It is by no means a certainty that just because you have one highly capable child, all the rest in the family will be of equal intelligence. I can think of loads of cases where that is not the case. Is it not proven, research-wise, that eldest siblings are usually the cleverest so one could argue that generally younger siblings wouldn't be as bright.

Anyway doesn't that just skew the statistics for those attending the school to be a more academic cohort than they should be?

I am definitely of the camp that it should be a local school for local children, but not filled with the offspring of pushy parents who've helicoptered their large families into the area to secure no. 1 sibling a place and then can sit back and relax while all subsequent children get a 'free ticket' into the school.

Thank you, GraveneyLady.

No Alias, to the best of my knowledge that never came up. I was just trying to smooth some feathers by suggesting that it won't be a disproportionate part of the intake - but it didn't work. Apologies.

Maud, I did some work on that. For the 2011 intake, there were 4 siblings who were not admitted because the elder sibling got in on test, and the younger did not score highly enough/live close enough to be offered a place under those criteria. For 2012 intake there were 12 in that position. 2013 intake still shaking down so too early yet to tell how many "extra" entrants we will get who would not have been offered a place in previous years.

Hmm, Alias. I don't want to say too much for fear of outing myself, but I believe it's quite common for children who are applying as siblings also to take the test. Hence my question to GraveneyLady.

ComeIntoGarden, but if you had already secured a place for a child through sibling priority then would you bother entering him/her through the test?

Know is

Happen

I think what many people are curious to know are how many of those admitted as siblings of those with selective places did not score highly enough in the test to gain a place in their own right? Does this hppan often or is it a rarity?

GraveneyLady said And as another poster mentioned, smart kids quite often have smart siblings who are likely to get in on test on their own account.

If this was apropos my comment earlier then you could not be further from the spirit in which it was said. GraveneyLady, I don't know how 'official' you are regarding the school but if this is the view of the school and the reason they reintroduced the sibling policy then I am shocked!

How can you say that just because one sibling got through the test, the others in the family also will. It is not fair to other families who want to send their dcs to the school.

For the 2012 intake, the selective students came from the following boroughs:

Wandsworth 38
Merton 15
Lambeth 9
Southwark 1

The distances for the selective intake were as follows:

Under 1000m 7
1000 - 2000m 12
2000 - 3000m 5
3000 - 4000m 13
4000 - 5000m 8
5000 - 6000m 9
6000 - 7000m 5
Further than 7000m 4

All bar 1 of the pupils coming from more than 6000m are Wandsworth residents.

I am interested to know the distance from which selective students came last year - and boroughs, too - but not if it involves you in endless work!

Hi all

Various questions - not all of which I have the answer to!

gazzalw, I joined last April so wasn't involved with the change of sibling policy. I believe, however, that is was designed to foster even further the sense of family/community. And as another poster mentioned, smart kids quite often have smart siblings who are likely to get in on test on their own account.

Blu - I can do you the borough figures if you would like them, but as irisgrey says above it doesn't necessarily tell you much. Not a problem though. Which year are you interested in?

TWOTB - I just answered the same question on EPE! Was it you? The papers that GL Assessment recomment are
Multiple Choice Verbal Reasoning
Pack, ISBN 9780708719879.
Multiple Choice Non-Verbal Reasoning
Pack, ISBN 9780708719862.

Classicsgirl, the rental thing is a perennial issue. I wonder if any of you know any other schools/authorities that have found a good way to tackle this?

Keep 'em coming!

My dd (yr 6) and I were talking about her friends and the secondaries they will be going to today. One of them is going to Graveney as she passed the selection test. Another is already there but got in on distance and is in the lowest stream on account of her dyslexia.

My dd is very confused and assumes all children who go to G are superbright as she assumes they all have to pass the test. I had to explain to her that her dyslexic friend got in on account of distance and did not pass test. The conversation rapidly got quite complicated and at the end of it I don't think she really understood.

I just wish all secondaries had a straightforward transparent system that everyone including the children themselves understand. I find it v. uncomfortable having to explain to my 11 year old how much 'brighter' X is compared to Y.

My dd's secondary does everything on distance (no banding, tests, scholarships). Its so much easier to explain and seems a lot fairer to the dc.

Thanks, KandyBar

GraveneyLady you sound like you have inside knowledge. Did you see the question above on which types of papers are best to prepare, and what sort of score you DC needs to be getting on them to know if there is a realistic chance of getting in. I know of course that it differs year-on-year and it depends on standardisation. I also picked up on this thread or another that you need to get 270 or so out of the maximum 282 on standardised scores. But how does that relate to real papers we can see and practice on and the raw marks.

Classicsgirl: There was a huge thread about that very subject last year. here

True, borough is not necessarily an accurate indicator of distance.

Blu, I think it can be a bit misleading to talk about selective entrants in terms of borough because Graveney is so close to Merton and Lambeth. I know a child who travels in from Putney, ie within Wandsworth, with a journey of about an hour. In the same class I know a child who walks a few minutes up the road from a Merton address which is around 550m from Graveney. Both children took selective places but it is certainly the Merton child who has grown up as part of the community around Graveney.

Hello graveney Lady, thanks for raising your head above the parapet! Since you asked....I'm interested in why it seems fairly easy to do the Graveney shuffle, ie rent a house and get a place on distance, while still owning another property. I've always wondered why the school doesn't check harder to see whether there is another house that is the real home, especially when it comes to siblings. I've no axe to grind, as we couldn't afford to do the shuffle and don't live close enough to be impacted - and our two had to both get in on the test when there was no sibling link - , but it is pretty common and I don't think anyone's lost a place as a result of it. Done the school condone it? Thanks!

Hello GraveneyLady

Just out of interest - how many selective admissions aer from Wandsworth and how many from other boroughs? And from how far afield?

Hello GraveneyLady

You were very helpful to us last year for DS so will be gentle with you if any questions spring to mind!

Firstly what was the rational for reintroducing the sibling rule for the selective intake?

Many thanks

Hi everyone

Just thought I'd join in the fun. Some of you may know me - I used to be AdmissionsLady from SGS on the EPE board.

Please feel free to hit me with any questions you might have about Graveney Admissions. Bear in mind I can only be factual - I can't offer my opinions or any speculation.

Do feel free to rip me to shreds! That's what I'm here for

Cynical about how school admission operate in South London? Surely not

ww3.wandsworth.gov.uk/committ/documents/s22909/Paper%20No.%2012-154%20-%20School%20Admissions.doc.pdf
The Council paper relating to this change makes clear it was Chestnut Grove and Burntwood as well - that all siblings should be put on equal footing.

I have a feeling that some overseer (ombudsman perhaps? schools adjudication office?) had said they had to change the rule for selective places. And I wonder whether that body has not been abolished or weakened along with so many others, so the schools have taken the chance to change it back?

I agree it is unfair on local children. But I suspect the schools can make a case, especially the co-ed ones, that they do try to preserve a family atmosphere and that they encourage parents to engage with the school and this is easier with sibling places (I can see both these too).