Double science v. triple. Has DS blown it?

I am increasingly believing they are, like another poster here has said, correctly expecting DS will get the A or A in double that will boost their league table position rather than 'punt' on AAB or ABB at triple which muddies those waters.*

The thing is Erebus that you moved into catchment because you valued its position on the league table. And haven't other people said that A/A in double has a higher value to your DS* than AAB or ABB in triple?

You would need to consider whether achieving AAB or ABB in triple would instead demonstrate that your DS wasn't capable of getting AAA. And that in having been put forward for triple by his school (instead of double) and by implication being a dead cert to get AAA to protect their position on the league table, would mean he'd actually failed to be one of the highest science achievers as expected.

Have you spoken to the school yet? As the feedback I gave you was that you should speak to them and that doing triple isn't just about capability but attitude too.

The DC put forward for triple haven't been distracted by lab partners or ignored a 2 for effort in their report. What has set them apart and shown the teachers that they're able to do triple is their attitude in Y9. Not one single DC who has a problem with 'in class' attitude in Y9 has managed triple science. They've all dropped back to double in Y11 as they've not been able to sustain the level of real commitment required to do well in triple. It's not simply about academic ability.

This is the view of the department whose eye is not on the league tables but genuinely on wanting the DC to get the best results they can get realistically get. But they will be happy to speak to you about it if you contact them and would even be prepared to change their mind if you genuinely feel your DS is capable of improving his attitude and commitment for the next 2 years.

Because at the moment he has been given 2 weeks to improve and he's already thinking it's all over. That doesn't evidence a DC who's prepared to really really put in the extra work to do better in triple than he would have in double.

And wise words from BCGB, his future in engineering at uni has in no way ended. He just needs to work a bit harder, with the support of the school, or find an alternative route to uni.

There is more than one way to skin a cat as my old neighbour would say
I spoke to our local highest performing 6th form college about the entry requirements for Science A level and the need for triple science. They said it would be preferable but A*/A at double is perfectly good enough providing the other GCSE's are of a good standard too. So by doing double the step up to A level may be a bit bigger for your ds but remember he will have grown / matured / developed in the interim too and may well be in a better place to learn. Learning is not linear but goes in fits and starts, your ds may well make great strides in the next few years whereas my ds may slump. And they will then eventually meet at uni studying engineering each having got there their own way!

Yeah, we typically have two set one classes who all work at level 7C and up.

We are a high performing comp but not the highest on the area.

shipwrecked, that is what I was (badly) trying to say. Ds is currently 7B, target 8C. This is top set Y9 Science at an average comp.
And ds's current 7B is "slightly below average for the top set" according to Science HOD (ds's teacher)

Erebus, talk to the school about your concerns.

Erebus - One of my DS did dual award (was very upset at the time he was told, like your DS), because his Physics in Yr 8 was under performing). He then went on to study Physics, Chemistry, Geology and Economics at A level and then Environmental Geosciences at Durham. Thirteen year old boys often need a kick and there is no way your son should feel he needs to rethink engineering at this stage unless his maths is also below expectations. I would speak to the HOD if you feel he is serious enough to do the work at this stage. If he isn't mature enough then he can still opt to do the work at A level, despite the fact that some of the GCSE triple syllabus won't have been covered before sixth form - that was not unusual in pupils opting for science A's in my Dc's leading independent school. If you are looking at transferring for sixth form then I would also speak to the admissions tutor at that college. Oh and don't let him feel the world has ended, it hasn't, and stuff like this will happen again and again. A close friend of mine who missed his Cambridge medicine place because he shocked everyone by bombing one of his science A levels then went elsewhere to read biology and is now a world-renowned Professor of Applied Biology. Stuff happens.

Sorry, the 'nicely' came out all wrong. I don't mean you won't be nice, I was meaning it in the context of your earlier post about not wanting to be one of those parents who gets the school's back up.

Am really not very coherent tonight, it has been a long week...

I am surprised if you are saying that an exception few get a level 7 at the end of year 9.

That would not fit with my understanding of a high performing comp tbh.

Have you spoken with the school yet about your concerns? What have they said?

Mmm, seems a bit low compared to ds's school, unless they (ds's school) are fibbing about ds's and his classmates results?
And ds's school is an average comp. (66% A*-C incl English and Maths were last year's results)

But talk to them. They should give him a chance to prove himself.

One of ds's friends is in set 3 for Science and is currently working at a 6C. (I am friends with her parents, they told me her level as they are having the same battle with the school you are) She has been told she cannot do triple science unless her parents are willing to pay for the Further Additional. They don't want to pay (although they will if they have to) but they want their dd to have a chance to prove herself.
That said, ds's school determine the top 20% based on the results at the end of Y10. So just because ds is currently in the top 20% and working at 7B does not guarantee he will still be in the top 20% at the end of Y10. And likewise, his friend who currently would not be put in for triple may well by the end of Y10 have worked her way into the top 20%)
Seems a fairer way of doing it?

I agree with you that it is unfair your ds is 'written off' for triple science so early.

Talk to them, fight his corner (nicely). Good luck

Sorry, also meant to add, DS is currently in Y9 and the levels I am referring to are for the top set in Y9 at his school.

Gah, not being very clear and coherent tonight...

Meant to add, OP, I am not sure how the 6H your ds's school gives translates into NC levels?
At ds's school (as I mentioned above) the top 20% do triple science. The current 20% are the top science set. I believe (although I have not seen every pupils' mark) that this group are on level 7C / 7bB / 7A according to what the department head for science told us at parent's evening last month. Ds had a level 7B for Science on his Christmas progress report and according to said head of department (who is also ds's science teacher) that is just below the average for the top set. His end of year target is an 8C.
If 6H equates to a 6A then this strikes me as a little low? And perhaps the school do have your son's best interests at heart rather than their league tables? Forgive me if the levels are completely different though and are not comparable.

At ds's school (large but good state comp) the top 20% do triple science.

Just remember science teacher at DS school saying she had 35 in her top 2 sets combined, I had the impression they were only children doing the triple. So that would be 22% of the cohort.

this is bit out of date, but reported 16% of pupils completing triple in 2010.

More recent figures but I honestly can't make sense of them.

I know a lad who has just been offered BBB for an engineering degree course. The original offer was higher but they held an assessment/aptitude day and his offer came down after doing well on that. He is doing maths, physics & a non-science subject.

DH likes to brag how he got top marks in all GCSEs & A-levels (math & physics & DT). He conveniently omits the Chem A-level he dropped, devil's work indeed.

Still looking to see if anyone answered my Q.

I dont see why they couldent be taught and taken as seperate subjects as I detested physics but dident mind chemistry and biology why not let pupils decide when they do options.

It's a historical thing. back in the late eighties, when the conservatives brought in the National Curriculum, one of the things they wanted to do was prevent students specialising too early and to have a decent grounding in all sciences. so they specified that all sciences needed to be studied.

It will be interesting to see if that ideal remains in the future, but that's why it's this way at present.

DD1 has just rang to say she got A* in her core science paper. She still has some course work stuff to complete and so doesn't know her final grade.

She's over the moon, she missed A* in her mock by about 2 marks. this time she got 99% in one paper.

So much for the HOD saying she wouldn't cope with triple.

Interestingly was debate on double v triple science on wright stuff c5 today and on panel was ladies from tommorow world and ex secondry teacher who both agreed triple was better.

I dont see why they couldent be taught and taken as seperate subjects as I detested physics but dident mind chemistry and biology why not let pupils decide when they do options.

reason for it they said was school xmas league tables

Most private schools and all scottish seniors taught all 3 so rather puts welsh/english and ni kidsat disadvantage when comes to applying for science at uni.

'If there is an A level which will trip up even those with talent and motivation it is Chemistry, as DD says if you don't have that sort of brain you just will never get I know DCs accepted for medicine tripped up by Chemistry.'

Chemistry is the devil's work, that's why.

We take on quite a few people to work in the labs who have sciency / maths based A levels, and will sponsor through day release for Chemistry at the local uni, or Open Uni if they have the aptitude.
We would be expecting Chem A'level tho.

In days gone by, we took them on with GCSE's, as a modern apprentice.

Consider the Navy / Army for Engineering training.

Bloke across the road got a practical college course for engineering, but it sounds like technical plumbing, rather than actually designing the plumbing, iyswim?

There is a 2 year btec Level 3 diploma in engineering, or 2 year level 3 diploma in applied science. Wiltshire college offer both.

Short answer, probably not! Someone always has to reinvent the wheel but he definitely sends off apprentices to study something, BTECs? DN also en route via apprenticeship.