Clegg jnr to go to state-funded comp

Clegg's address has been picketed before by protesters, it's not a secret. It's twice as far from the Oratory as his local Catholic school (which is not nearly as elitist), and more than four times as far as the ARK Academy, which is their local school, which they didn't even visit.

On Stoic's point, Daddy Clegg is in fact an atheist (although he no longer proclaims this bluntly like he used to) and no kind of Catholic at all. Mummy is the Catholic.

In terms of a Catholicness (?) test, I think being baptised is a reasonable requirement, but excluding a child for being baptised at 7 months rather than 5 months, or indeed AGE 7, is absurd. Anything beyond a simple 'send us your baptism certificate' is going to be more and more exclusive.

What about the Polish/other eastern European communities? Don't they baptise later, but are every bit as devout as DHs aunts? Would they get in?

imagines classroom filled with Mrs Doyles Can't see the Oratory going for that somehow.

La Volcan Do you mean would the aunts get in? Actually I think you will find it is the daughters and granddaughters of those Irish working class aunts that are jumping through the hoops to get their DSs into these schools but they aren't working class, and once mission is accomplished they will NOT be doing any more cleaning.....

Clouds I don't think many would say that the criteria are designed to exclude the disadvantaged, poor and low attainers, I am sure they are designed to ensure the school serves the Catholic community. If you read the school adjudicators report which has ruled the service criteria discriminatory (link further back) they accepted as much, however the unintended side consequence is that the poor, the disadvantaged and the parents of low attainers are less likely to know about and be able to fulfil those commitments.

Shag Going on DDs' friends at Oratory, you can lead a horse to water etc.

Know Clegg's address (though obv not going to post it... do NOT want men in uniform with guns on my doorstep and they very def do NOT live Putney Bridge/just over bridge from Fulham bit... Abide in the UBER expensive at furthest poss distance from that bit. And yep, LOTS of 'sink estates' nearer from Clem Atlee Court/Lille Road in Fulham (walking distance...); West Ken estate (ditto) - you get gist. And i find it very hard to believe there are NOT families there who are RC but do NOT have the same strategic entry opps as many other.

Bed now, rant at politicians condemning soooooo many DCs to horrific schools whilst ensuring THEIR DC's get into best is now over...

DH was brought up as a Catholic and according to him some of his aunts lived in Church. They were working class of Irish extraction. That should make them ideal candidates for a Catholic school. I wonder how many like that would get in?

Of course there is social housing within reasonable distance of the school. But proximity to the school is not any part of its oversubscription criteria, so it has no catchment. However, Putney is really not very far - just a couple of stops on the tube so it is not an unreasonable choice for the Cleggs.

The hoops do effectively prevent lower ability children entering the school; as someone said upthread, the ability spread is very similar to some of the less selective grammar schools. While it is reasonable for a Catholic school to favour Catholic families, the LO does seem to pick and choose its Catholics very carefully.

I think faith schools should ignore the parents altogether, as it's not the parents who are attending the school. It's the children.

They should only admit children who pass a lie detector test showing they TRULY believe in the existence of hell and the virgin birth.

It'd be very interesting. I suspect the class sizes would end up being on the small size.

As said previously, my understanding is that Clegg Junior DOES 'fit' the religious 'criteria'... but I would be STAGGERED if there were not, other equally 'qualified', candidates who might be nearer yet did not get a place.

I think that's the key question for me too. Are there any sink estates nearby which would normally be in the catchment area?

If he has other RC schools closer to his home, then that's a fair point, but I don't think there is anyone fundamentally wrong with parents having a choice of schools. We shouldn't be obliged to send our children to the nearest school just for the sake of it if there is another one that suit them better somewhere else. My children don't go to the closest schools, and I wouldn't be very happy at being forced to send them to the closest schools for no reason.

I don't think hoops are there just to stop poor children getting in. They might be there to ensure that all parents are like minded, but that's not the same thing.

Not to stand up for the Cleggs too much, but Fulham is just over the bridge from Putney, so Clegg Jr might be able to walk to school, depending on which bit of Putney they live in.

Anyway, my point was the same as yours, which is that there is no need for the London Oratory not to have a more mixed demographic, if they are just another local Catholic school.

But point is Msr. Clegg lives in Putney, NOT Hammersmith or Fulham, and very DEF not in Shepherds Bush etc (Cleggs in in a veree naice >>£1m house in Putney)... Putney being WAY further than many nearer boroughs, and de facto presumably further away than significant number of fully fledged and well intent Catholics IN those boroughs who have NOT been offered places. As said previously, my understanding is that Clegg Junior DOES 'fit' the religious 'criteria'... but I would be STAGGERED if there were not, other equally 'qualified', candidates who might be nearer yet did not get a place.

And the fact Tony Blair's DS's went there, when there is a MUCH nearer RC school with way less good results/way less 'middle class' strategic entries IS unfortunately the thing that makes you go a bit about Clegg Junior admission. Ditto fact Blairs used Sacred Heart in Hammersmith - when AGAIN, much nearer faith schools to No.10 where living at the time.

System stinks IMHO.

The hoops are there to stop poor children getting in. They may not involve handing over cold hard cash, but they do discriminate against vulnerable families, who are less likely to be able to play the system. I wonder whether they get the nanny to do the flower rota?

Nick's clearly keen for his children to avoid mixing with the hoi polloi - those nice people he's supposed to represent and who pay his wages. The London Oratory excludes ordinary kids - I'm sure Clegg will be very happy he'll not have to risk bumping into 'the wrong sort' at parents evening.

Am chortling at the post that referred to him as a left winger - in what, way, exactly?! What has he EVER done that could possibly be described as left-wing? He's an economic liberal i.e. closer to Thatcher than Labour. Very pro the EU. But has pursued policies that harm the poor and the vulnerable and threaten the survival of the NHS - not very left-wing at all.

Poor Catholics aren't actively prevented from going there though are they?

I realise there are a lot of hoops to jump through, but they don't cost money. I can see why people don't think schools funded by state money should have entry criteria based on faith, but that is a separate issue to the one about which school Clegg Junior goes to,

As I said before, I would be very surprised if there aren't many, many poor Catholics living very close to London Oratory, it being in the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham. How far away do pupils have to live to be within travel distance? It's only about 3 miles south of Shepherd's Bush.

I understand the Westfield Shopping Centre is considered to be quite nice, but I didn't think it had regenerated the area that much?

I'm not sure it makes a difference what they said in their manifesto. Nic Clegg is a parent before he's an MP, and he is only one half of a couple that gets to make decisions about their child's schooling.

Should his wife have had no say in where her child goes to school because of her husbands job? Would people really have more respect for Nic Clegg if he used his child's education to score political points?

And this school is a state school.

Copthall, I think your posts are pretty spot on. Ya need sharp elbows in my parish to even get on the cleaning/polishing the silver rota?never mind the flower arranging rota?.i think you need a phd or similar to be allowed to take part in anything more ?intellectual? such as liturgy?and you need to be very confident to push yourself into these sometimes unwelcoming groups?ya gotta be the right kinda catholic.

I grew up in a catholic country? I never ever heard or ?knew? that you must baptise your baby by six months?.Talk about not knowing about the bloody hoops. My daughter goes to a rc school in south London?we?ve just gone through secondary transfer?the well educated middle class parents kids off to the elite rc secondaries?the rest well they are off to the local rc secondary with mediocre results.

Have just scan read thread as exhausting and rough day. To me is VEREEE simple:

1 - I DO believe and understand that Miriam (Spanish) and Nick (English and not as devout as Miriam) IS a 'proper' Catholic - IE NOT the 'convenient Catholic. Ergo have no issue at all with their DCs following an appropriate Faith School route if qualify.

2 - Blairs boys went to London Oratory - utter piss take on every family DESP to get THEIR DC into a half decent school.

3 - Anyone who thinks the Oratory has not been overrun by rich enough to live within travel distance (av. price for small house c.£700K?) AND the time TO polish the Silver/flower arranging in the few - uber strategic parentally - years before application is, frankly, deluded.

And ALL of that matters as ALL of OUR DC's deserve a decent bloody education.

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100034393/lib-dem-manifesto-education-policy-includes-commitment-to-dismantling-faith-schools-and-academies/

Here we go.

Of course, that manifesto was back in 2010. Who knows what they believe now.

Because if state schools aren't good enough for politicians' children (and they decide on educational policy), why would anybody else have any confidence in the state system?

Also, I think many lib dems are against faith schools. (Can't remember if it is an actual party policy).

Despite my earlier comment, I have read the thread with interest, but I am honestly struggling to understand why it matters where Nic Clegg's child goes to school.

What difference does it make to anyone else?

There are many reasons. One would be that the rules are so complicated that those who are able to comply with are disproportionately going to be parents who are concerned about their children's education, and this group is going to include very few low attainers.

Another would be that requiring baptism before 6 months, regular mass attendance, voluntary activities, and so on, excludes children from unstable backgrounds, who are the most likely not to achieve at school.

What CloudsAndTrees said.