Check the data for your childs school - find the hidden truth

tiredaftertwo It does do better on the "similar schools" measure - except in maths. And the thing is, I know that there is an issue with progress in maths. But the problem is focused on a specific group of children - the majority of pupils are doing absolutely fine.

I understand how you feel AChickenCalledKorma. So how does your school do on the "similar schools" measure and on progress, which are not measuring raw attainment? I am genuinely interested because I think schools in unusual situations can come badly out of tables like these, but from what you have said it should be doing very well on both those measures? The similar schools measure is specifically about intake - so it is in there (that is on attainment - narrowing the gap is about disadvantage)

I can see the argument for not providing any data - though I don't agree with it. But surely once you start down this route, the more the better, and people will learn to interpret it. No table will be perfect. But the more data, the fewer perverse incentives to go for table points not child's interests, it seems to me.

And actually, when you look at exam results (including against schools with very similar intakes) narrowing the gap, and progress, quite a lot of detail and context is provided for something that is so easy to read. I think.

When I first looked at these earlier I thought OK, pretty simplistic but OK> But actually there is more in them than that, when you look at all the reports, and the notes then also point you to the full league tables. I think it's not a bad effort - if they could do better, let's tell them how.

"May I suggest you read the dashboard guidance document first. As BBBerthasays, it's all in the small print."

That is precisely the point. It's all in the small print. Which most people won't bother to read, because they will look at the "dashboard" and say "oh, that school's cr@p" and not bother to look any further. I fully support parents having access to information, but I don't support it being presented in such a simplistic manner. I think the current league table information is very good, because you can actually look at the information behind the headlines and get an understanding of how schools compare in terms of intake etc. This goes completely the other way and simplifies things to the point of being misleading.

Of course I am speaking specifically from the point of view of a school that is doing all it possibly can to do a great job in a "difficult" area - surrounded by leafy suburbs where the other nearest schools have a much easier time of it. And I'm a bit fed up of the tumbleweed moments when other parents make snap judgements about me, based on completely misconceived ideas about the school my children attend. (Where, incidentally, they are doing very well, happy etc etc etc)

BBB, the FAQs and other info make clear that:

1. This is not for governors primarily - they are specifically told to seek out other more detailed data in the FAQs. If ofsted choose to assess on that, that is up to them, and presumably as a baseline measure but yes most govs will know an awful lot more. Where di you read that?

1. This is a subset of the league table data, in a simpler form. So it adds nothing new. Similar schools provides context - how schools with extremely similar intakes in terms of attainment perform but if you are not interested in that, that's fine you don't have to read it.

As a parent and taxpayer, and someone who would like to see educational inequality addressed, I am very interested if schools with similar intakes have wildly differing results.

No-one has to read these. And yes they are very simple and not nuanced.

Thanks. The second table is very useful.

It can't be more than annually obviously but having just been reading how Ofsted expect governors to know what it says and for this to be evidence that they are doing their job properly and monitoring the performance of the school, is just silly. And if it doesn't work to inform governors about how a school is changing, it won't work for parents either. Perhaps you don't think parents need the information but that is far more important to me that a set of test results. I am not interested in what results last year's cohort got, unless my child was one of them. I am not even that interested in what similar schools did. I want to know that a school is adding value and how much value it has added. This seems to me to be a far more signficant statistic. The Dashboard doesn't have much, if anything, to add to what the league tables already say on that.

You know how teachers always complain about how some parents ask about how the rest of the class are doing when they should just focus on how their child is doing. Well this is the same thing, scaled up. As a parent I am not interested what others schools are doing. I am interest in how my child's school is doing and how much improvement my child can expect to make there.

And it specifically recommends governors get access to the RAISEonline data and explains that the tables are based on the league table data set, and driven by it. And that they are simple accessible tables for everyone to use

How often would you expect data about annual exam performance to be updated BBB? I don't see how it could be more than annually.

The FAQs are clear I think, too, and explain the "similar schools measure" - it compares results with a reasonably small number of schools with a very similar intake (attainment-wise).
AChickenKorma - how does your school fare on that measure?

If parents don't want it, fine, they don't have to look. If they don't "need" it - who says? I am a parent and a taxpayer and I think I need it. If it is misinterpreted, well, let's all help explain how data works, complain when the media gets it wrong, read the background info and FAQs, talk about it, encourage schools to explain how their particular circumstances pan out and point people to the league tables and ofsted demographic info too; and let's not pretend that the previous lack of info wasn't unfair - some people were in the know, some were not and had to rely on rumour or ignorance when making important decisions.

Those who oppose this - how do you think we should decide who gets what data? Given it can now be accurately collected and cheaply disseminated in a meaningful form - should governments decide what to release on the basis of what they think - on no real evidence - the masses will understand? For ever?

If people can find their way through this, I suspect they can also find their way to the league tables, ofsted, the school's website and pick up some local knowledge too.

May I suggest you read the dashboard guidance document first. As BBBerthasays, it's all in the small print.

I've just looked at the dashboard for the first time, and I think it is pants. Parents looking at my children's school will get a quick snapshot that shows it is in the lowest quartile for certain subjects. That is true. What they will not see (because they probably won't bother looking) is that it has a very high proportion of children with language processing difficulties, because there is a specialist unit in the school. And, surprise, surprise, many of them don't hit the national targets.

But the school has just been given a Good report, because the rates of progress made by all children are good - and so is pretty much else about the school.

One of my socks has a HUGE hole in it. I am wearing it upside down until both sides wear out. Am I Frugal Star or what?

The Dashboard is actually very limited. It only gets updated once a year. I am surprised it is recommended for use by governors. If they relied on that, a problem in attainment could already be year old before it come to light.

I agree with Balia that that Value Added is what counts and the dashboard doesn't really have anything to say about that. The performance tables do but then they always did.

I also fail to see what difference it makes to a parent how the school spends its money. If they aren't making the most of it then it will show in the performance of the school. As a parent, other than it being interesting because I am nosy, it doesn't really tell me anything about standards and how the school can do better. Why should I care or even be told the average salary for example? Isn't it just another stick to beat the teachers with? You can just see it now - disgruntled parent of unruly child, fed up of being told their child is disruptive/underperforming/generally making life difficult for the school and the other children, who tells the teacher they get paid enough to sort it out and they should just put up with it.

The information is at risk of going over a lot of people's head and misinterpreted or just being ignored. I would argue that a lot of this stuff is what we expect the governing body to keep an eye on. It is beyond what parents need and in a lot of cases want to know.

Has anyone seen my socks? I seem to have lost them

Someone has probably used them in an Arts and Crafts session.

You can only get the most out of the data if you understand the margins of error, which are probably included somewhere in the fine print, to be fair. Coz we know how good everyone in modern life is at reading and even understanding the tiny font fine-detailed print.

Exactly, warwick1.

Discussion can also help. The league tables for A levels now include AAB in at least two facilitating subjects. This seems to have been added as I am pretty sure that when they were published, it said three, which is a nonsensical measure and led to a lot of negative and misleading headlines about state schools not producing anyone with the right grades and subjects for RG universities. I can only assume that discussion and complaints got this fixed. And now everyone has access to this information in a (relatively) clear standardised format - useful for parents but also a good place to start digging to see where discrepancies in university admissions really start, for example.

I think it can be hard to interpret this mass of information, and I think the attitudes of some schools and teachers makes this harder.

And finally, while I am grumping, I would also say that arguments that rely on pouring scorn on things your opponents never said look very weak.

That is true tiredaftertwo. Knowledge is power as they say.

With a little bit of effort, it is as riddlesgalore says, possible to find worrying trends and possible issues either within specific schools or local areas that need addressing. Many schools/academies appear to have been coasting others that profess to have improved (including academies) are shown merely have been benefitting from a national rise in performance rather than the school/academy specific rise they boast about in their literature. Whether the national improvement is genuine or distorted is obviously another question.

Any more sites you come across riddlesgalore, I for one will be interested in hearing about. Maybe those who are not should resist the temptation of posting sneering remarks and allow those with something constructive to say voice their opinion without fear of abuse.

learning how to get the most out of data is important for parents

This is so, so true.

For most of us, this sort of data was not available when we were educated. But it is now, it is published and free, and each year there seems to be more. If people could learn to use it, I think it could help address inequalities in education. The more information we have about vital public services that we pay for the better.

Those sneering would perhaps like to look at the league tables now and note how much info there is on ability range, progress, value added and so on. It is much better contextualised that in was.

Did ofsted kill Lady Di?

ThingummyBob - I guess your socks are where your foot is at this moment - I'm sure you didn't mean to be rude but learning how to get the most out of data is important for parents and some of us are interested in the sites posted by riddlesgalore.

aliasPrickleandJones: If you also compare a selection of local schools its easy to spot where the schools/academies concentrate on adding value.

Yes, the dashboard is a clear way of looking at the figures. Really highlights those schools in the area that have a good reputation (and in high demand) that may be coasting.

Has anyone seen my socks? I seem to have lost them

I've not seen the dashboard website before. It sets out info very clearly and confirms that the good schools near us are very good but our catchment school is still poor.

There is masses more information available now than there was a few years ago, and many people may not be aware of it, so thank you.

If you look at the new league tables they show you the ability ranges, so you can compare schools with similar intakes directly.

University statistics strongly suggest that one of the barriers to equal access is subjects studied at the right level, so this is really important stuff.

Where did anyone say that all teachers want to manipulate the league tables or that everyone can achieve high marks?

If one school is averaging C+ with its high ability children and another A-, you may at least want to ask why (and there could of course be valid reasons).

Thanks OP. I am always fascinated by schools data, and I've never actually come across these two particular websites.

I think the data is very clearly presented for a comparison between schools; and much easier than other websites I have looked at.