The Trinity-Whitgift thread of 2013 continued

I certainly wouldn't read the Oxbridge figures that way. At best they tell you what percentage of an average cohort is Oxbridge material. If your son is bright and motivated, then the figures you really need are the proportion of pupils applying to Oxbridge v those who get in (and as you get closer to that age, looking closely at success rates in the particular subjects). I would expect both schools to have a better than 50% success rate for those who do apply. But I would expect almost half of the boys at Tonbridge to apply for Oxbridge, with less than a quarter applying at Whitgift. The Whitgift intake has increased significantly over the last few years (up to 200 boys per year), and therefore the proportion of Oxbridge places in future may vary. I would also note that often Oxbridge isn't always the preferred destination of those who want to practice medicine (where London universities are often preferred), and the courses tend to favour those who want to go into medical research rather than practice (huge generalisation - but given this is a London school, there are many applicants who don't even waste an university application on Oxbridge as they favour the London colleges instead).

There is often some movement between schools at 6th form level, so don't assume that this gives you a true reflection of progress between 13-18 at either school. And don't be afraid to review your decision at this point in time either, especially if your son has a clearer idea of what he wants to study.

If you visited the schools on a non-open day then I'm afraid that the tour guides at each school will have been selected, with care. That is not to say that your guides were the only presentable boys in the school that day - far from it! But the schools know how to do a good sales pitch.

If I were in your shoes, I would want as much information about my son's cohort as possible. How big are the year groups? Where is my son placed academically within that year group (whether someone is in the top third or the bottom third can impact their self-confidence - asking which maths set he will be placed in will give you some good info))? What are the boys in the boarding house like, and what are their standards in terms of academics (eg at DS1's school the boarders have a higher GCSE results targets than the day pupils).

Hi L&H, good luck with your tricky decision today, let us know what you decided in the end!

Thank you.

During our school visit, we were deeply impressed by the 2 W Y9 boys who showed us around. They are well-mannered, humble ( despite they are sports champions and U14/16 national reps), proactive, smart and intelligent.

The T boys are also very polite, and more intellectual.

If we take W, my DS will be in a more cosmopolitan, varied and dynamic environment, and have a 12% Oxbridge chance. New boarding house with very modern facilities.

If T, more traditional study environment, excellent school reputation, older boarding house facilities, 29% Oxbridge. Higher school feess.

Need to make final decision soon.........

Tonbridge without a doubt is the more traditional English school with an excellent reputation. My only reservation would be that the fact that although it would appear that there are a decent number of boarders, few of them are full boarders which could be a problem for an overseas family. It is important to ask the school the exact numbers of weekly boarders and full boarders. Another good question to ask is how many boys in year 9 were in last weekend. Schools can sometimes be very cagey about this type of data. So it is worth asking very specific questions.

Of the two I'd say Whitgift is probably perceived as sporty/musical and Tonbridge all round and international . If you have the £££ then most would opt for Tonbridge as it is a more traditional public school, OB network etc. I think Whtigift offers IB and A levels in 6th form but Tonbridge takes a more traditional approach with a significant number going to Oxbridge

Thank you all. Can you please advise what is the reputation and standing of the schools - Whitgift and Tonbridge, amongst uk locals ?

Whitgift is going to be predominantly day for some time to come whereas there is much more of an established boarding school culture at Tonbridge, even if many go home on a Saturday night. I suspect they will be offering big incentives to get this aspect of the school going. Location wise, Whitgift is better placed for access to London and the more cosmopolitan environment - but is that what you want for a 13yo in UK for first time? We know families happy at either (or in some cases both!) but they are very different.

It's not an easy decision to make. We have visited both schools, met the Headmasters, talked to the teachers and the students. Both have excellent teachers and superb facilities. Our heart is skewed towards one of them, but all the Uni facts / figures are saying that the other one is academically better.

I think that for some boys at Whitgift the sport is more important than the academics (and in fairness Whitgift will encourage those boys onto professional sporting success). Tonbridge's academic results would usually be better than Whitgift's on almost every measure. Whilst Whitgift has put a lot of investment into its boarding facility it is still fairly unproven. Whitgift is a fine school, but given a choice between these two specific schools, Tonbridge wins.

Have you looked at the virtual vids?regret I don't understand lady mucks second reference to Whitgift and sport... I do know that they do really well at all levels in a number of sports , hockey this year has been v good. The boarding house is right next to the sports centre.academically, you can check uni destinations for recent leavers on website to see if fits your sons aspirations. Hope this helps

Tonbridge, without a doubt.

More boarders (and it is seen as a boarding school for British pupils, not just a day school which takes in overseas boarders). Both schools have excellent sport facilities but Tonbridge is an academic school which also has good sporting facilities - occasionally Whitgift will stray into sports being dominant. Tonbridge results are better than Whitgift.

Whitgift or Tonbridge ?

Hi I am from overseas and very luckily we have received the full boarding offer (GCSE) from both Whitgift and Tonbridge. My DS is the play-hard and study-hard type. He is targeting to get into a top-top university, and at the same time keen to gain personal development exposure various fronts. We have to make up our mind in the next 2 days. Your kind advice much appreciated. Thank you.

Fatal - well done, so happy for you! That's amazing news.

Sports course is also in term time for DS, but the current head has granted him permission to go as "off-site education", which I thought was really a pretty wonderful thing to do. I thought there was no harm in asking as they're hardly doing any work in the last few weeks. We signed up for sports course mainly because we're away when they're doing induction - and as it will be the last family holiday we'll ever be able to afford, we did not want to cancel that.

I'll be the one trying my best to take small ladylike sips at the new parents evening and end up swigging from a bottle. Or such.

frazzled - I don't think ds is going to be able to attend the sports course as its still in term time for him. Do you think it will make a difference if he doesn't?

Hello all - haven't let myself look at this thread until today as felt it was tempting fate! Reason is that I was waiting to hear on confirmation of ds's bursary - which I got today, wooohoooo Such a relief; after the to-ing and fro-ing of earlier this year I was half-convinced it was all a mistake but no, it's sorted, he's going, it's done! Now I can let myself sew on a few name tapes (and start some serious budgeting too!)

So, is anyone else going to the new parents' evening on the 19th?

Of course some of us thought we were really prepared for once and had all the clothes, including blazer, labelled already. Will revert to procrastination. If I get around to it.

Well if nothing else it should tire him out! They're fairly full days. And it will give you and him a chance for another nose around the school, and work out where everything is. It's also a way for catching sight of a few familiar faces, and I think gives a balance to the leaving primary school experience: now look at where you'll be going.

The uniform shop will be expecting lots of uniform to be exchanged, so I wouldn't worry about the blazer at all. At least you'll know what size you are after so you can just phone and ask them to put one aside for you. They do of course shoot up in that first year or two. Which was the only way I could cope with the fact that the blazer seemed to get thrown on the ground so regularly.

Thank you, Ladymuck, that is very reassuring. We may need the jaws of life to get him out the car by Day 3 (or a stretcher to get him home), but I'll be very happy if it gets rid of any of the current Year 6 stroppiness.

The sports course is a good introduction to a large range of sports (I think they do at least 4 different sports every day, not just the usual team sports). There's a mix of ability. Yes some of the boys may be older and very talented, but unless he is sport-shy and has to be prised from the car I suspect that he will enjoy himself.

Is anyone still out there? With SATS done and dusted, uniform sorted (I now think the blazer will be too small by August, let alone stretch to the end of the first year!) it finally feels like we're in the home straight.

Is anyone attending the W sports course? Will the average boys also benefit? DS is going, just hoping it won't scar him for life if everyone else is super talented..

So sad to hear these stories. Everyone in DS school seems happy and mature about their choices/fate and tolerant with everyone else's. These things really affect children's attitudes toward their future schools.

Fatal, obviously this is not a woman you want for a friend...IMO.

It seems to me the world is full of grown ups who need to grow up!

Uniform fitting in 3 weeks. I fear the smallest sizes may still be too big, but then I can't imagine DS will be the scrawniest, shortest boy to have ever started at W. ALthough it won't surprise me..

The weeks are dragging and it seems the Year 6s in our school are getting rather tetchy with each other. DS and best friend have fallen out, there have been a few nasty comments about schools f(not only W, also the different state schools the others are off to) and I think some of them have already either moved on in their heads, or are going through a tough time getting ready for the change. The parents and even the teachers seem to be affected by this, too! This is not a moan, but I have been pointedly ignored by the uber mums since the results and the attitude towards DS in class has pretty much been to just get on with it without help "as he should know all the work". Bring on September, I say!

Hi Fatal. Checked for first time in ages to see if any new posts and as I was reading yours letter arrived from Whitgift re arrangements for June meeting and Lake Garda trip. Makes it all real again and hard not to get excited. Our uniform fitting is in 2 weeks. Shame about your friend but probably very little you can do. Must make last months at school very difficult for you and your ds. Try not to let it get to you too much - you have made your decision based on what's best for your child and your friend will either realise this and accept it or she won't.

Just been for ds's uniform fitting - eeeep! Not exactly a cheap morning but the look on his face when he put his blazer on was worth it! He still looks soooooo tiny though...

Am so excited (as is ds!). Just having to manage a bout of the green eyed monster from a friend with a son in ds's class. She freely admitted years ago that she wanted W or T for her two dses, but can't afford to send both boys. She is now being vile about my decision to send ds at 10. Sigh. I don't want to lose her friendship over this but am really just feeling, well, rrraaaaagghhhhhh!

Hope everyone else is enjoying the wait!

Many thanks. Will get on the phone and see what happens. We have been saving since DS was born to fund schooling. Been through some hard patches but we are ready.