DD and her Spanish teacher. GRRRR!!!!

I am comparing results with results, and then we can work out which teaching system ends up with better results!

But, Bonsoir, you're not comparing like for like. If we taught MFL as a compulsory subject from primary to 18 I bet we'd get better results too.

The French are not as bad at English or Spanish as the British are at MFL. All French bac général candidates do two MFL to 18 (mostly English and Spanish - and Spanish is quite well taught in France) and many DCs can actually speak English at the end of this, as well as other languages.

A bit off topic, but my DH is German, and we've tried to figure out what makes MFL learning so much better in Germany. So far we've come up with 3 things.

First, the teachers run their classes from (almost) day 1 completely in English. No explaining things in German, no talking to your classmates in the native language. Once you're through the door you speak/are spoken to in the language you're learning. DH was quite shocked that this wasn't my experience.

Second, there is an attitude that learning the language is actually necessary - that you will need to be able to function with the language during your life. This means that your parents/school will place the same emphasis on the MFL as maths, science, etc.

Third is the level of exposure. German kids hear English songs on the radio, and see English TV from a young age. There are also regular high school exchanges to England (and France) with homestays where the hosts don't speak your native language.

"And who gets better results in MFL, the English, the French or the Spanish?"

I'm not sure you can equate. The fact is (I think?) we're talking about a UK school with UK students and UK curriculum.

Someone mentioned Germany. Yes. We absolutely should be teaching languages all through schools and placing a high importance on their learning. It's such a shame that the Conservative scrapped that policy as soon as they got in.

Hmm, I wonder. Whatever the Germans do, that's what we should do! The French and the English are both rubbish at languages, therefore I conclude both systems must be crap:) Seriously though, to caricature slightly, one seems to encourage understanding of obscure grammar above actually functioning in the language, and the other tries to encourage functioning without ensuring a basic grounding in the structure of the language. Neither are exactly conducive to fluency.

When it comes to the teaching of MFL, I am a huge traditionalist!

If she is the only one coming to the front of the class then it is time to talk to the head of languages and if necessary escalate to the head teacher, it is personal and therefore unacceptable.

Bonsoir, I don't know, but none of the three are exactly distinguished by their foreign language proficiency!! I'm surprised to see you defending French traditionalism. I'm a product of both systems and can see the good in both but if you look at the product of Anglo-Saxon v. Continental universities, if push came up shove I'd go anglosaxon all the way! But sorry for the thread derail op!

No, bran - there's no such thing as a standard Spanish accent, although I'm quite sure the people of Madrid would beg to differ. There's no such thing as a standard English accent for the same reason - the language is spoken in far too many countries, never mind regions, worldwide.

The accent the OP is referring to can be quite hard to understand because of the swallowing of letters (a bit like cockney but on steroids) but it seems like the DD is aware of this and trying to make sure she speaks more clearly than she would, say, with a bunch of fellow teens in Murcia.

Spanish also has a highly diverse vocabulary - for example a lot of words for fruit and vegetables differ between countries (often because the local word has been adopted into Spanish). Thus there's plenty to get grips with beyond accent when speaking to people in other parts of the Spanish-speaking world :) Latin Americans will normally (but nicely) rip the piss out of Spanish people for using the lisping "thetheo" version of Spanish which is not generally spoken there - I don't use thetheo now except for words which are inextricably linked to Spain for me, like Jerez and Aranjuez.

"I hate to judge and generalise, but I have found that native teachers from both France and Spain tend towards a very traditional, rote method of teaching, which is considered démodé in UK teaching now. It is much harder to differentiate if you are expecting pupils to listen and repeat, or learn to memorise passages than if you are playing games and using active learning."

And who gets better results in MFL, the English, the French or the Spanish?

I used to teach English in Italy in a state secondary school. Some of the teachers spoke terrible English and loathed me because they were frightened I'd pick them up on their mistakes (I never did, horrible as it was to hear them passing on mistakes to the children). A couple made my life a misery

I have to agree with libelulle. I am a MFL teacher, and have native speakers in a few of my classes (international school). I try to find them work that is special to them but on a similar theme when appropriate (realing and listening mostly), or use differentiation by outcome for writing and speaking tasks (eg. they will produce an expended essay, beginners a blank-fill writing task).

I hate to judge and generalise, but I have found that native teachers from both France and Spain tend towards a very traditional, rote method of teaching, which is considered démodé in UK teaching now. It is much harder to differentiate if you are expecting pupils to listen and repeat, or learn to memorise passages than if you are playing games and using active learning. Of course, this may not be the problem.

If I were you I wouldn't pussyfoot around with the "how can we help her pronunciation" thing, I would be more forthright and ask for a meeting with the classroom teacher and HoD (not HoY), and come prepared with some questions, the main ones being 'how are you differentiating for my DD?' and 'how can you improve on this?'

She might struggle to answer these questions, so it might be worth considering some suggestions. Do the school subscribe to journals or magazines? Or do they have novels in Spanish that she could read? What websites do they have subscriptions for? If she is almost fluent, they will have work suitable for A level students (perhaps not the abortion euthanasia stuff, but some would be relevant). But actually, I would seriously consider pressing for early entry GCSE Spanish, and for her to take French from year 8. Primary French won't have made much difference with her levels - she should settle into a y8 French class in September without any problems.

It is not appropriate that she is completing the same work as beginners; neither is it OK for the teacher to belittle her different accent. Please feel free to PM me or ask any questions on this thread if I can be of any help with practical suggestions.

Having just read yr last post, I'd be v surprised if the issue was coasting here. If they have just started learning Spanish, it is going to be unimaginably tedious for your dd to sit through 'hola my name is' kind of stuff for lesson after lesson. Secondary language teaching is pretty dumbed down at the best of times, so it's going to be years and years of the basics ahead.

Regardless she should not be in a class years and years behind her ability level- what a waste of time for all concerned. The teacher should be setting her completely different work of her own, and if that is not possible then she should be allowed to sit in the library and catch up with other work instead. Differentiation is the watchword right through school, so it is totally inappropriate for the school to put an advanced speaker into a class full of beginners and expect her to learn next to nothing for the next 5 years. This seems as much an issue as the bullying.

Is there a more challenging Spanish class your daughter could be put in? I was fairly fluent in Spanish, and the school gave me additional work at my level to help me maintain the standards I was at. Maybe that is something to ask about too?

As far as I'm aware the teacher should be looking for consistency over anything. I learnt a lot of French when my mum and stepdad lived in Toulouse in s. France and I'd a ghastly accent but my teacher said as long as I didn't mix it in with parisienne French I'd be fine - and I was.

It sounds like the teacher is being very unprofessional (I'm a teacher). One of my dd1's friends is a native French speaker (her dad is French though she and her mum live in Glasgow now, dad still in France). They're in s1 (=y7) and dds friend is sitting her higher French this year (normally done in s5 = y11) and school have totally facilitated this. That's what I'd hope would happen for your dd. My dc go to a bilingual school already so they're very language aware but there's no excuse for your dd being run down because she can already speak Spanish!!

Sadly, I have heard of other cases (in more than one country) of MFL teachers picking on pupils who speak the language in question better than, or differently to, them.

I think you need to talk to the teacher to get her view on your DD and then, depending on what happens, you might need to go above her.

Sorry to press the point again - I'm sure challenging the teacher might make her stop the bullying, but it is never going to make the class an appropriate one for your dd. As someone who remembers sitting almost crying with boredom over a 'for first year beginners' textbook when I was reading entire novels at home, I'd be tackling the bigger question of why the school think it is appropriate for a near native speaker to be sitting in the same class as total beginners. It isn't!

The question for me is whether other pupils have to go to the front of the class. stand there and pronounce each and every sound. If they do then I think I would tend towards your DD being over sensitive and needing to accept that it might be below her ability but that everybody is being treated equally. If however she is the only one who has to do this, then that is definitely a cause for concern and needs you to ask a few questions at school, maybe starting with the head of languages.

How odd. Teacher is probably trying to make herself feel more proficient by belittling the talents of a 11/12 year old!

In that case drivinmecrazy, I would definitely talk to the teacher (and head of year if no joy). You could say something like, "DD seems to be having trouble with her pronunciation. Could you give me some pointers on how to help her, because getting her to repeat everything several times in front of the class is obviously not working." And then listen to what she has to say/watch her squirm

It really does sound horrible.