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Original poster

Advice needed re Year 9 ds being put in too early for GCSE science

114 replies

frankinsensible · 06/12/2012 16:48

Sorry this is quite long...ds school has a policy of putting kids in for some GCSE's in yr 9. In yr 8 he chose 2 options from a limited selection - a language and a practical subject - and has studied them intensively for GCSE next summer. That seems to be going OK-ish although I personally think he is too immature for the language exam. Whenever we query with a subject teacher that it is too early for this step they just blithely say 'he can always take it again'.

The problem is the school now tells us that he is being put in for English Literature and Science GCSE's as well and has module exams in January. At the parents evening the science teacher told us that if ds fails the exam he will not be able to re-take it! When we looked shocked he said it would be fine because ds won't fail.

After a couple of days I began to be really worried about it. Ds is an intelligent boy but he's only 13 and I don't feel he's anywhere near the maturity of written expression and presentation required to get a good grade in these exams. He also suffers from Absence Seizures which are worse under stress. I brought all this up with his tutor who said he had spoken with the science teacher and the exam can be re-taken if he fails (so why tell us that it couldn't?) and that they are certain he will do well.

My biggest worry is I know ds is the type to react badly to a bad result - he will say that he's no good at the subject so it won't be any help to him to have to re-take. Today he had an oral exam in the language and came home pretty crushed saying it had gone badly Sad

Can I insist that the school do not put him in for the science GCSE? What is my best course of action? I don't want to get into a big stand-off with them but I am genuinely worried - this is ds's future they're gambling with.

OP posts:
freerangeeggs · 09/12/2012 23:09

Frankinsensible, as far as I'm aware you have every right. He's your child.

twoterrors · 09/12/2012 21:47

This is how schools do it - they flatter children and parents. Bright children do not need a string of Cs and Ofsted has said it will be critical if early entry means they are not getting As and A*s.

Honestly, make a fuss. Ask the school why they are ignoring the evidence and ignoring what the DfE and Ofsted say. And make sure other parents know the consequences, as set out by Dromedary.

Original poster
frankinsensible · 09/12/2012 18:40

Good advice re the GP, I will keep that in reserve if I need it.

freerange - you are a teacher so hopefully you can tell me - what rights do I have to refuse to allow them to put him in early?

As I posted previously, I'm in a tricky position. If ds was unhappy there I wouldn't hesitate to move him but actually he really likes the school, the teachers and doesn't have a problem with being put in for the exams as he has been sold the line by the teachers that this is something for the 'top' set and therefore a bit of an ego boost. He's only 13 so has no real understanding of the possible consequences.

I have not encountered any real opposition to this system from other parents - a little bit of grumbling about pressure but otherwise they all seem to accept it as the norm.

OP posts:
Dromedary · 09/12/2012 18:22

It sounds insane to me - so he'll probably end up with 1) worse grades (and universities now definitely look at gcse grades when making offers), 2) the best universities will disregard the gcses that he took early, so he won't get in to them; 3) he could have a 2 year gap between a gcse and starting an A'level course in the same subject, 4) he's likely to have the joy of doing badly in some gcses and having to re-take, 5) years of worrying about exams and missing out on the time off work subjects.
I would think that your best hope as an individual is to see your GP and get evidence that this will be to his disadvantage because of his disability.
For those who want to try to improve the system for everyone, I would set up a meeting for the parents of all the children affected by this, having circulated ahead of the meeting all the evidence on the harm that this system does. If the school faces a revolt from dozens of parents, it's just possible it might consider changing the system, though presumably not from one day to the next. You could also go to the local paper, etc.

freerangeeggs · 09/12/2012 17:54

I'm a teacher and this has just made me really angry, which is why I'm posting again. If it was my son I'd be laying down the law about this. He's got a condition that's aggravated by stress and they're stressing him out with unnecessary exams that he's not ready to sit?? If I was his class teacher I'd be making a stand about this too, it's not acceptable at all.

So much for individualised learning.

GRRRR I need to get out of this frigging country!!

freerangeeggs · 09/12/2012 17:48

Tell them to get stuffed, he's not ready and he's not doing it.

This isn't for your son's benefit, as you know. It's so that the school can bank as many Cs as possible to buoy up their position in the league tables.

prettydaisies · 09/12/2012 12:09

My DD did all her exams at the end of Yr 11. One thing that I noticed compared to her friends at other schools was the amount of teaching she got. Because she didn't do modules at any other time, she was taught for all of Y10 and most of Y11. The other thing that worries me about early entry is if you want to do the subject for A level. You may well have a year 'off' of that subject. A levels are hard enough without you having forgotten some of the subject.

ashley69ly · 09/12/2012 09:08

At my DDS' school they start their GCSE's in Y9 but don't complete any until the end of Y11. My DD sat some modular exams starting in Dec of Y10 but still had modules to sit at the end of Y11 so she studied all her subjects for the whole 3 years. Because they had the extra time it meant that DD could continue with more subjects. DD is very academic and under the old system would have been restricted to fewer, more academic subjects. Under this system she could continue with some other subjects that she really enjoyed. She ended up with 12 GCSE's at great grades and was able to have a good balance of subjects rather than having to narrow her focus down at the start of Y10.

Original poster
frankinsensible · 08/12/2012 21:26

That's a very good point Books - hadn't even thought that far. The strongest schools in our area don't take exams early either and I think that is the crux of the thing actually. DS' school is in a difficult area and they have been highly praised for helping to raise the aspirations of kids (and their families) who have often had a pretty awful start in life, coming from backgrounds where getting an education is still seen as a mug's game.

I think a lot of the reasoning behind the early exam thing is to focus attention on the importance of getting qualifications before they get to an age where they just start to drift away.

OP posts:
BooksandaCuppa · 08/12/2012 21:08

Agree with others, almost no independents or grammars do early GCSEs (except things like native languages or music for high fliers) and certainly not unless an A* is predicted. I think that says a lot about whether it's a good idea.

The other thing to bear in mind is the jump to A Level. One of the local 'weak' comps does Eng Lit at end of yr10 and is happy for their best students to only attain a grade B. These students are then going onto stronger schools for sixth form and sitting in A Level Eng Lit classes with other students who've achieved an A* that summer, compared to their own B a whole year and a bit ago. You can guess who finds the already big jump to A Level the easiest...

Original poster
frankinsensible · 08/12/2012 20:45

I've sent an email to the English teacher to ask for a meeting about it. I have decided that of the two non-option GCSE subjects it is English that is likely to have the worst outcome and is of least benefit for him to take early. At least with the science, if he scrapes a C he can then go on to study the sciences separately so should get more depth in them and possibly get three good GCSE's. With the English all he can do is retake so it is really pointless.

I need to bear in mind that ds has very good relationships with his teachers, he likes and respects them which is obviously not something I want to damage. If I start with the subject teacher and then work my way up to more senior level it won't look as though I'm barging in over their heads.

OP posts:
Astelia · 08/12/2012 14:01

My DDs' doesn't enter anyone early for GCSEs except if someone is fluent in a language then they can sit that and get it out of the way.

Some uni courses and some companies offering scholarships through uni will expect lots of A* at GCSE, as well as As at AS. I do wonder if some schools are aware of this when they let students sit early and get low grades.

Do the independents let students sit early and get low grades? no. So why is it good enough for other students?

OP I would be camping on the HT's front step to get my DC entered in Y11 for exams. I would offer to pay and enter them as a private candidate if the school won't agree.

Original poster
frankinsensible · 07/12/2012 22:32

Yes he is happy there webwiz - I know it would be damaging to move him so there's not a lot I can do but I will make an appointment to talk someone at the school about it and at least see exactly what will happen if it all goes wrong with the science and english. Really appreciate your advice and that of everyone else who has taken the trouble to answer. Xmas Smile

OP posts:
webwiz · 07/12/2012 22:00

Bit of spin going on there then frankinsensible - I think if your DS is generally happy with school then you just need to keep yourself well informed about what he's doing and when so you can support him (which I'm sure you are doing anyway). He doesn't know any other way of taking exams so he'll just go with the flow even if its done differently in other schools.

Original poster
frankinsensible · 07/12/2012 21:52

The were graded 'Good' overall webwiz - they said they school needed to accelerate improvement in mathematics and english and 'challenge' the more able students. The curriculum was rated 'outstanding'.

Interestingly part of the reason for the 'outstanding' rating was their observation that students had a lot of access to performing arts and that they had time one afternoon per week to pursue their particular areas of interest. In fact ds now does no performing arts - no drama, no music no dance and no Art, because everything has been pushed out to concentrate on the Option and Core subjects, and the Wednesday thing has been abandoned. According to Ofsted the feedback from parents was overwhelmingly positive.

OP posts:
chloe74 · 07/12/2012 21:26

If Ofsted liked that system I can only imagine it was because no parents told them how much they hated it. If they did I am sure it would make for a different report...

webwiz · 07/12/2012 21:09

What grade did the school get frankinsensible? DSs school was inspected by OFSTED in October and they were graded outstanding. The school makes it very clear that they do not like early entry for GCSEs and OFSTED were very happy with that.

Original poster
frankinsensible · 07/12/2012 20:45

At the last Ofsted inspection in March this year they were apparently full of praise for this system!

OP posts:
chloe74 · 07/12/2012 20:30

ravenAK - I completely agree with you about the perverse incentive and that teachers don't do it by choice. As a parent however we have to fight the teacher to overcome that incentive to get the best for our children. Almost a lose lose situation :(

Its my understanding that a parent can refuse to permit a child to sit the exam at Y9 or Y10 the school has a legal obligation to continue teaching English etc. then at Y11 you can sit the exam at a different center if needed.

I would also raise this issue with the board, making it very clear that you will be meeting with the Ofsted inspectors at the next visit and expressing your horror. I wonder could this matter be raised with the education department, a visit to your MP would also me worth while.

Original poster
frankinsensible · 07/12/2012 20:13

At the options evening in yr 8 we were given a list of 4 to choose 2 from and told that ds would take the GCSE in his two chosen subjects, as long as he seemed able. He would also of course continue with core subjects, maths english and science.

We then went on a fairly confusing conveyor belt of quick meetings with subject teachers. We were told he had been identified for the 'triple science route' but there was no in-depth explanation of what that meant and I am ashamed now to think how passive we were, just sitting and nodding as they all told us what a model pupil ds was, as if it was still primary school. Apparently the 'triple science' involves taking the combined science GCSE in yr 9 and then concentrating on the separate 3 science subjects in the following years.

I felt pretty relaxed about the idea of him taking the exams in his option subjects, both the subject teachers seemed to feel he would have no trouble but I can see I wasn't thinking clearly, just going with the flow and now I feel i've let him down. It was not explained to us that he could end up taking 4 GCSE's and there has been nothing in writing. I also don't see how he can have the depth of knowledge in the language to get a good GCSE grade and presumably there won't be any space in the curriculum next year for him to continue with it if he doesn't take the exam.

Grimma you are quite right, I can just sense that I'm going to have to get in a battle with them about it and it feels pretty daunting - I have no real understanding of the jargon teachers use and no knowledge of the plan for yrs 10 and 11.

OP posts:
ravenAK · 07/12/2012 20:08

Grimma, we do very very nicely on A/A* & Ebacc too.

Trust me, there's a lot of clever people putting a lot of hours in as to how to play these stupid games to best effect.

I completely agree with you that it serves schools first & children second.

(& teachers last, definitely - I don't know very many who wouldn't far rather just 'get on and teach the subjects properly for the full time')

ravenAK · 07/12/2012 20:04

Oh yes, I'm not saying it's a disaster, & going to all terminal exams will absolutely clobber dc like yours.

But early entry definitely means able but less motivated kids 'settle' for a banked C.

Personally, I reckon my bunch of feckless loveable rogues last year self-limited & fair enough - why should they end up with the same grade as someone of equal ability who is prepared to work their socks off for a re-sit in hopes of a B?

They would, however, have achieved higher grades with an 'all or nothing, your target's B, you're doing Higher' approach.

Just goes to show that one system is never ever going to suit everybody...

GrimmaTheNome · 07/12/2012 19:59

If you look at the schools at the top of league tables - judged by A/A and EBacc not just A-C - I bet you'll find very few of them playing these stupid games with their pupils' education. They just get on and teach the subjects properly for the full time.

My DD is 13, she's very good at science - no way would she be ready to do a GCSE at the end of this year. No way would she have the maturity to do English literature. She's currently predicted to get A*s in these subjects, taken at the right time.

OP, if they aren't making everyone do this then you certainly should insist your DS doesn't - the epilepsy is a good reason they ought to find hard to challenge (not that you should need an excuse to avoid their shennanigins).

creamteas · 07/12/2012 19:55

Raven we have this at my DC's school and it really works for them. I have two with ASD who are really anxious about exams, being able to sit the foundation paper and bank a C gave them chance to attempt the higher papers in English.

If all entries were at the end of year 11, they would only ever get the chance for a C because the risk of failing the higher paper is too great.

lljkk · 07/12/2012 19:47

I thought that some posters were adamant that the OP should insist to school that her DS do EngLit exams at end of yr11, so apologies if I misunderstood that.

Frankinsensible were you told back when GCSE options were chosen, what the schedule would be for when your DS would finish which GCSEs? Is it in writing? I would have thought parents would always be so well-informed, but from what MNers write, seems often to be a mystery.

Also, were you told, back when touring & choosing secondaries, what kind of schedule the school followed for GCSEs? I just finished tour of secondaries for DD & am amused that not one school explained that except after I asked specific questions.

But then I like the multi-yr system for GCSEs, anyway.

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