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Is entry to independent school really like this?

134 replies

headfairy · 29/11/2012 18:43

I've cut and pasted this from The Times, it's one woman's experience of getting her dd in to a selective independent school. I was quite shocked, is that really what you and your dcs have to go through if that's the kind if education you want for them?

It’s 11-plus season. Helen Rumbelow hears a mother’s story of betrayal, lies, intensive tutoring and parental neurosis
It was like a scene out of a civil war — and in a way it was. Outside, van loads of extra police had been drafted in by the council to try to stop adults careening their cars over the road. Inside, over a thousand children were corralled in a vast hall.
Still only 10, they knew there was something very ominous about the day and had the pale faces of young children whose stomachs were in knots. Chances were, they were about to let their parents down. Parents who were so determined and competitive that normal social conventions had gone out of the window the minute stakes got this high: from illegal parking to lying that bordered on sabotage.
The cars of over a thousand parents ramming against each other for space was a good metaphor. Inside, some children were in tears, some fled the room saying they felt sick.
Jane watched her ten-year-old daughter Molly take her place bravely at one of the most competitive grammar school examinations in West London — and probably the country. “I did think at that point: this is quite cruel.”
Cruel to be kind? When Jane first had children, a decade ago, it never crossed her mind that this was where she would end up. She and her husband had both grown up outside London, and had good educations at state schools; Jane at a comprehensive, he at a grammar school. They both went to top-tier universities and on to professional jobs.
“Looking back, I am so surprised.
I would never have dreamt that I would have a daughter at a private school.
And I had absolutely no idea what the selection process would entail.”
Now bruised and battered Jane has — anonymously — co-authored a guide to the whole process which is part battle-plan, part post-combat stress therapy. It was written for others like her who came to the realisation late: that you can trust no one. This Christmas season, hundreds of thousands of ambitious parents will be putting their child forward for an 11-plus-style exam at selective state or private schools.
What they are also subjecting themselves to is an ordeal in which their child and their family are pitted directly against others in the neighbourhood: friends turn into vicious rivals, giving away nothing — or mis-information.
“The secrecy surrounding the 11-plus,” writes Jane on the book’s website, “can feel like you are trying to do the equivalent of breaking into the Bank of England.”
For an anthropologist studying the genus Parentus neuroticus in their natural habitat, the Perfect Parents’ Insider Guide to the 11 Plus could not be better fieldwork.
Jane first knew something strange was going on when she exposed a previously good friend’s betrayal. Having always assumed that Molly would go to a state secondary, it was only in her penultimate year of state primary school, Year 5, that Jane began to consider private education.
Molly desperately wanted to go to an all-girls school, of which there were no local state options. She was, said her teacher, bright enough to endure the examination process. But when Jane started to ask around, she was told — a full year before the exams began — that all the tutors were booked up, because parents started reserving places when their child reached Year 3.
“One friend said, ‘Oh, just relax!’. She had two children in private school, and another in my daughter’s year, and she said they didn’t believe in tutoring. They just did a few practice papers.”
Jane was quite prepared to believe her, except that when she did eventually find a tutor through a late cancellation, she bumped into the very same friend on the doorstep.
“She did look shamefaced. It turned out that she had used a tutor extensively for all her children. And this, we found out, was widespread. Everyone pretends that they are not really tutoring.
‘We’re laid back,’ they tell you. ‘If you have a bright child, you’ll be fine.’
Do not believe them. I don’t know anyone who gets into a selective school who has not been tutored or very heavily supported by their parents.
“Because I went to a comprehensive, I had no idea how many hoops you had to jump through. The first is that people will not give away the names of good tutors because you are competing with your children’s friends. It’s a horrible situation to be in.”
Jane took on the role of “detective and investigative journalist”, tracking down contacts through parents of older children and sourcing material on the internet.
She found herself feeling naive again. It was not uncommon for children to have multiple tutors: specialising in English, maths and non-verbal reasoning parts of most tests. This was on top of the music tuition that many paid for in the hope of getting into selective schools that reserved places for those of musical aptitude.
“We thought that because Molly was grade four on the piano, she was pretty good. We gave up on that thought pretty quickly though, as the schools we went to weren’t interested in piano, as they were recruiting children for their school orchestra. Children had the best chances on ‘endangered instruments’ like the bassoon. Most schools were demanding at least the level of grade 5, one grade 6.”
As the year went on, the levels of preparation intensified in direct proportion to the numbers of parents saying “we’re staying laid back”. Children at nearby private primaries were given practice papers every day, so Jane sourced her own from the internet. But they came without the answers, “so you end up having to do the test with your child”. One 90-minute paper a day was considered the norm through the Christmas holidays, “although we had Christmas Day off”.
“I had to bribe my daughter with a lot of clothes. My friend was bribing her son with games for his computer. Because no normal child really wants to be doing a practice paper.”
Molly did exams for six different schools, and went through to the interview stage. Jane was again appalled to realise that some parents had employed a specialist interview tutor.
“At the first interview, the girl next to her had a whole portfolio of art with her to show. It was intimidating but in the end I don’t think it was necessary.”
Finally, Molly got into her school of choice: a private all-girls school in London. None of the others that did so got in by chance: “They were the daughters of parents who were very committed.”
However, Jane and her peers spent a year in a state of paranoia and neuroticism, and Molly could have had more fun. So, was it worth it? “Yes. We wanted to make sure that we had done everything we could for our child.” Does it bring out the worst in people? “Yes.”
The Perfect Parents’ Insider Guide to the 11 Plus is available from 11plusperfectparent.com

OP posts:
Elibean · 30/11/2012 16:43

Sparrows [interested) and could she?! Blimey.

mumzy · 30/11/2012 16:42

I would say there is more hysteria around entrance exams to grammar schools than even the most selective independent schools. At grammars its all down to your final exam mark so no chance to shine at interview or be given some leeway for having sports/ musical appitude. Also most indies tend to charge for the enterance exam whereas at grammars its free as is the education should you get in.

Elibean · 30/11/2012 16:42

It really is insane - I agree with Beta and Copthall, insane and bordering on abusive. If its like that (my dds - at local state primary - are still young and happy, and I haven't encountered the Y5-6 angst yet).

And we are in SW London - ick. At least there are no grammars around.

Sparrows12 · 30/11/2012 15:31

It is quite something though. One of mine tried for a super selective sixth form this year and was asked how she would solve the arab israeli conflict.

Copthallresident · 30/11/2012 15:24

I don't think any of the West London girls' schools have 1000 sitting the exam, never mind competing for parking spots? It all sounds like a big dose of exaggeration.

Having said that in my experience parents do get ridiculously competitive and anxious about these exams and it is entirely unnecessary.

DD1 applied for four West London girls' schools from overseas, she had a bit of tutoring simply because her International School hadn't covered the whole syllabus but it was a cosy hour at a favourite teachers flat with tea and biscuits once a week for a term, and she loved it. She sat the exams at her school, and we flew back for the interviews (or she had them the previous summer ) and got in everywhere.

So far, so relaxed.

DD2 was at a west London prep and I developed the skills of a SAS hostage rescuer so quickly did I get her out of that playground, and away from the desperate air of parental angst and competition, during the terms leading up to the exams. The school did more than enough to prepare them and yet still there were parents taking their poor daughters off to tutors after school, and giving them hours of extra work as well as homework, it bordered on child abuse, and all according to the assumed demands of getting DDs to the schools at the top of a ridiculous perceived league table of local girls' schools that makes a yawning gap out of the tiniest differences. All of the schools they apply to are in the top 50 in the country, and yet for some anything but SPGS is failure! You just have to look at the questions on the exam papers to see that the schools are looking for ability and not crammed knowledge but that doesn't stop people. It didn't make a blind bit of difference, the girls all ended up at the schools that were right for their level of ability, much as it frustrated some parents, especially as they really could not comprehend how dyslexic DD2 got into a more selective school than their tutored DDs. In fact I will admit I got a bit too seduced by that league table and ended up wishing DD2 had gone somewhere where she would have been above average instead of average and that is the choice she has made for sixth form.

Anyway to counteract the hysteria here is a rather old but still good article from the old Head at Surbiton www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/oct/08/schools.uk5

seeker · 30/11/2012 14:36

In answer to the question in the thread title, sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Depends on the school and the parents.

hardboiled · 30/11/2012 14:31

We arrived to DS exam at a superselective grammar late, stuck in traffic, jumping out of the car, running under the rain. Got there two minutes before doors closed. An empty entrance, empty street. I thought: "Oh goodie, this is good, there is noone!" ...There were already 1600 boys sitting inside. People has been standing for ages to get in. We had missed the whole hysteria! Grin

Viviennemary · 30/11/2012 14:30

Live somewhere with a good comprehensive school. And avoid all this angst.

APMF · 30/11/2012 14:26

@ohdear - the indie process IS a bit more relaxed :)

If something is good AND its free then the competition is going to be much greater than for something where people have to pay.

Plus if you are prepared to pay then you will find a place that you like even if it's your fourth choice. Parents who go for the GS invariably have that choice or the so so school down the road.

So, when you only have one choice the pressure, both on the parent and the child, is going to be much greater.

OhDearConfused · 30/11/2012 14:07

Sure - but you can't really predict whether you are going to be 140th (or higher) place in the Tiffin test or 230th (which will only be a couple of mistakes apart)!!

Ladymuck · 30/11/2012 13:58

But isn't one of the problems that you can't predict which comprehensive school you might get? Dunraven obviously is very good, but oversubscribed, and in looking at their admissions policy it would be hard to predict how likely or not you are to get a place. Ditto Graveney and Chesnut Grove. Unless you have a sibling at the school already, or live on the doorstep, then there is a high measure of uncertainty, and as parents you have very little control.

OhDearConfused · 30/11/2012 13:56

I'm also surprised at what the quote describes as applying in selectives (in London). Anyone know which one.

I have heard similar stories about the Tiffin schools and other super selective grammars, but thought that (although still competive), the indies where a lot little more relaxed.

OhDearConfused · 30/11/2012 13:30

MoreBeta - tons of comprehensives like that in and around London (including in SW (where I live) Dunraven, Graveney, Chesnut Grove already mentioned), its just that a lot of people (a lot of MNers) don't want to go there for all sorts of reasons - such as "no-one else I know wants to go there, so I don't want to either"... and it gets circular and competitive for the very few selective/indies...

exexpat · 30/11/2012 13:22

I'm feeling very glad I'm not in London. Lots of independent schools round here (Bristol), all officially selective, but even the most selective admits I think nearly half of all applicants. DS and a friend had a few joint sessions with a tutor to go through practice papers a few weeks before the entrance exam, because they'd never encountered anything like the verbal/non-verbal reasoning tests before, but it never even occurred to me to do any more than that.

But if you think London is bad, try Tokyo. Children spend literally hours every evening and at weekends going to cram schools for coaching in how to pass entrance exams to the top schools. It's common to have 3-4 hours tuition plus extra homework every evening, and longer at weekends, in the run-up to high school entrance.

MoreBeta · 30/11/2012 13:22

The main reason we moved out of the South East because we didnt want to put our children through this to get them a half decent education.

It is insane and I can say that as a parent who has had both children in an extremely selective school and one of whom who has an academic scholarship.

Let me say it again. It is insane and is a product of the claustrophobic hypercompetitive, resource constrained South East.

We deliberately took our children out of the hypercompetitive school (ie one that parents tutor their children to get into) and went to a place that had a school that cared about eductional standards and gets children into Oxford and Cambridge but also catered for children who were average academically and who had other skills and talents - like sport, art, drama, music.

headfairy · 30/11/2012 13:15

basildonbond It wouldnt' be the first time she's lost the plot :o

I think she's discounted Chestnut Grove because improving dramatically all the time isn't enough for her pfb. To be honest, much as I love my niece I'm not sure she's as special as my sister makes out. She's hard working and dilligent though.

I know she had her heart set on our old school (a highly competitive catholic comp girls school in Croydon) but she's been told she's too far out for that. She really wants her to have a catholic education, but for some reason she's ruled out St Philomena's. There's not much else on the catholic girls schools in the area, hence she's started thinking of Sutton grammar schools as her plan B.

But yes, she is bonkers. :o

OP posts:
APMF · 30/11/2012 13:14

@headfairy - the flip side of your competitive mum is the one that said I was too pushy when I said that it would be nice if DS went to university. Ok, he was only 10 at the time but wanting your child to get a university education was being pushy???

No matter where you land, there will inevitably be those who think you are too pushy or not pushy enough.

basildonbond · 30/11/2012 13:08

sorry headfairy but your sister has lost the plot!

No decent state schools near Balham? really?? what about Graveney? and Chestnut Grove is improving dramatically all the time, then there's ADT (children we know there are very positive about it) and Dunraven in Streatham

And there are dozens of private schools which are much, much nearer than Sutton and Old Palace Confused

I'm afraid swimming won't help much ... unless she's national standard and applying for somewhere like Millfield ... most girls schools regard it as a nice extra and would be counted in your niece's favour if they had two girls on the same score and had to choose one

Your sister needs to calm down!!

(My dd is in Y5 in a similar area ...)

tiggytape · 30/11/2012 13:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

doyouwantfrieswiththat · 30/11/2012 13:05

RA&A seems lovely , the children I've met there are shockingly polite which I like. I say shocking because I'm definitely on the Redhill side of the border.

However, in this area it seems not so much which school you'd choose as which school you're given.

So much comes down to your child's attitude to learning and that is where school should be really engaging them. I like to think I have years to think about secondary education but it doesn't hurt to consider the options, everything could be different by the time I need to make a decision.

headfairy · 30/11/2012 12:42

doyouwantfries I'm surprised by that... I would have thought if anything Reigate was a bubble of middle class educational angst ;-)

I have never ever thought of myself as having an "intense" interest in my child's education (if anything I'm a bit too laid back - according to my sister, but she's bonkers) but I would also expect a Yr3 child to be able to read and write.

I hate that I feel like I'm being sucked in to that ridiculous competitive bollocks. I casually mentioned to someone that ds was quite sporty already and if he carried on showing an interest in it that we might look at Royal Alexandra and Albert and I got an almost hysterical reaction, "oh you won't get him in there, you're far to far away" Even apparently settling for Reigate school isn't enough. We "have to start tutoring in a couple of years to get him in to Reigate Grammar". Erm, no we don't!

OP posts:
doyouwantfrieswiththat · 30/11/2012 12:36

headfairy we're in the same area. I thought a bright child would be okay anywhere but seeing the different attitudes of children from the schools around here I now know that's naive.

I'm already being told by some folk that my interest in my child's education is 'intense'.

Is it seriously unrealistic to want them to read with understanding, or write legibly by yr3.

headfairy · 30/11/2012 12:04

Elegantlywasted I'm very glad to hear your experience... whereabouts in Surrey are you? We're on Redhill/Reigate borders so we'll hopefully be able to get ds in to Reigate school which is currently really good (who knows what it'll be like in 6 years!) but I was thinking about alternatives if that plan fails. It was scary talking to my sister, but she lives in Balham and there are no decent state secondaries around there (according to her), so she's been looking at Sutton Girls, or Old Palace in Croydon. But her dd is in yr5 and my sister is already borderline hysterical about getting her in to a good school. DN does maths and English tutoring twice a week, but no music lessons, she's an excellent swimmer though. But the hysteria is really freaking me out.

OP posts:
OhDearConfused · 30/11/2012 11:28

Isn't this woman of course. I'd fail English!

OhDearConfused · 30/11/2012 11:28

Aren't this woman the OP writes about just scaremongering (in the same way as the 11 Plus Forum) in order to flog a book with the ostensible aim of "helping" others.

Hmm