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Is entry to independent school really like this?

134 replies

headfairy · 29/11/2012 18:43

I've cut and pasted this from The Times, it's one woman's experience of getting her dd in to a selective independent school. I was quite shocked, is that really what you and your dcs have to go through if that's the kind if education you want for them?

It’s 11-plus season. Helen Rumbelow hears a mother’s story of betrayal, lies, intensive tutoring and parental neurosis
It was like a scene out of a civil war — and in a way it was. Outside, van loads of extra police had been drafted in by the council to try to stop adults careening their cars over the road. Inside, over a thousand children were corralled in a vast hall.
Still only 10, they knew there was something very ominous about the day and had the pale faces of young children whose stomachs were in knots. Chances were, they were about to let their parents down. Parents who were so determined and competitive that normal social conventions had gone out of the window the minute stakes got this high: from illegal parking to lying that bordered on sabotage.
The cars of over a thousand parents ramming against each other for space was a good metaphor. Inside, some children were in tears, some fled the room saying they felt sick.
Jane watched her ten-year-old daughter Molly take her place bravely at one of the most competitive grammar school examinations in West London — and probably the country. “I did think at that point: this is quite cruel.”
Cruel to be kind? When Jane first had children, a decade ago, it never crossed her mind that this was where she would end up. She and her husband had both grown up outside London, and had good educations at state schools; Jane at a comprehensive, he at a grammar school. They both went to top-tier universities and on to professional jobs.
“Looking back, I am so surprised.
I would never have dreamt that I would have a daughter at a private school.
And I had absolutely no idea what the selection process would entail.”
Now bruised and battered Jane has — anonymously — co-authored a guide to the whole process which is part battle-plan, part post-combat stress therapy. It was written for others like her who came to the realisation late: that you can trust no one. This Christmas season, hundreds of thousands of ambitious parents will be putting their child forward for an 11-plus-style exam at selective state or private schools.
What they are also subjecting themselves to is an ordeal in which their child and their family are pitted directly against others in the neighbourhood: friends turn into vicious rivals, giving away nothing — or mis-information.
“The secrecy surrounding the 11-plus,” writes Jane on the book’s website, “can feel like you are trying to do the equivalent of breaking into the Bank of England.”
For an anthropologist studying the genus Parentus neuroticus in their natural habitat, the Perfect Parents’ Insider Guide to the 11 Plus could not be better fieldwork.
Jane first knew something strange was going on when she exposed a previously good friend’s betrayal. Having always assumed that Molly would go to a state secondary, it was only in her penultimate year of state primary school, Year 5, that Jane began to consider private education.
Molly desperately wanted to go to an all-girls school, of which there were no local state options. She was, said her teacher, bright enough to endure the examination process. But when Jane started to ask around, she was told — a full year before the exams began — that all the tutors were booked up, because parents started reserving places when their child reached Year 3.
“One friend said, ‘Oh, just relax!’. She had two children in private school, and another in my daughter’s year, and she said they didn’t believe in tutoring. They just did a few practice papers.”
Jane was quite prepared to believe her, except that when she did eventually find a tutor through a late cancellation, she bumped into the very same friend on the doorstep.
“She did look shamefaced. It turned out that she had used a tutor extensively for all her children. And this, we found out, was widespread. Everyone pretends that they are not really tutoring.
‘We’re laid back,’ they tell you. ‘If you have a bright child, you’ll be fine.’
Do not believe them. I don’t know anyone who gets into a selective school who has not been tutored or very heavily supported by their parents.
“Because I went to a comprehensive, I had no idea how many hoops you had to jump through. The first is that people will not give away the names of good tutors because you are competing with your children’s friends. It’s a horrible situation to be in.”
Jane took on the role of “detective and investigative journalist”, tracking down contacts through parents of older children and sourcing material on the internet.
She found herself feeling naive again. It was not uncommon for children to have multiple tutors: specialising in English, maths and non-verbal reasoning parts of most tests. This was on top of the music tuition that many paid for in the hope of getting into selective schools that reserved places for those of musical aptitude.
“We thought that because Molly was grade four on the piano, she was pretty good. We gave up on that thought pretty quickly though, as the schools we went to weren’t interested in piano, as they were recruiting children for their school orchestra. Children had the best chances on ‘endangered instruments’ like the bassoon. Most schools were demanding at least the level of grade 5, one grade 6.”
As the year went on, the levels of preparation intensified in direct proportion to the numbers of parents saying “we’re staying laid back”. Children at nearby private primaries were given practice papers every day, so Jane sourced her own from the internet. But they came without the answers, “so you end up having to do the test with your child”. One 90-minute paper a day was considered the norm through the Christmas holidays, “although we had Christmas Day off”.
“I had to bribe my daughter with a lot of clothes. My friend was bribing her son with games for his computer. Because no normal child really wants to be doing a practice paper.”
Molly did exams for six different schools, and went through to the interview stage. Jane was again appalled to realise that some parents had employed a specialist interview tutor.
“At the first interview, the girl next to her had a whole portfolio of art with her to show. It was intimidating but in the end I don’t think it was necessary.”
Finally, Molly got into her school of choice: a private all-girls school in London. None of the others that did so got in by chance: “They were the daughters of parents who were very committed.”
However, Jane and her peers spent a year in a state of paranoia and neuroticism, and Molly could have had more fun. So, was it worth it? “Yes. We wanted to make sure that we had done everything we could for our child.” Does it bring out the worst in people? “Yes.”
The Perfect Parents’ Insider Guide to the 11 Plus is available from 11plusperfectparent.com

OP posts:
harrassedswlondonmum · 07/12/2012 14:21

In the sort of area you refer to, Muminwestlondon, it is much harder for boys.

You have Westminster, Colet, Kings Wimbledon - which take only a few at 11, and are highly academic. Then there is Hampton. Then what? St James' is not for everyone, and a long way out now. Halliford is also a long way.

Then there are the more academic co-ed schools - eg Latymer, Kingston Grammar, where you boys are competing with girls for places.

For girls there is St Paul's/Putney/Wimbledon/Surbiton/LEH/Godolphin/NHEHS and probably others I have forgotten, which take a full cohort at 11. So the mathematics mean that there are a lot more spaces for girls!

I still maintain that there is no need for hysteria or frenzy as long as you have a range of realistic choices and back up options.

My bright but not genius children were at a good state school and had a small amount of tutoring. My daughter got offers from everywhere she applied and my son got offers from all but one. Between them that's 8 offers from 9 schools, 7 of which are named above. I genuinely don't know anyone who got nothing at all unless they only applied for one or two.

Muminwestlondon · 07/12/2012 11:38

Perhaps I am cynical and think that hysterical articles like that contained in the opening post are a PR stunt to sell services or books to gullible parents.

My elder daughter applied to the selective independents in London about 7 years ago now: St Paul's, Godolphin, Notting Hill and Ealing etc and was offered places at each and it was a fairly civilised process. There were exams and interviews but it was as relaxed as possible in the circumstances. She also sat exams for Henrietta Barnett and a grammar in S/W London, which were less so. In the end she went to the latter where she is now in Sixth Form. We practiced at home with papers bought from WH Smith.

I do meet people who have tutored for years to get their daughters into the selective independents, but none have failed to get in somewhere. Sons seem less lucky for some reason. Perhaps because there are less places? I do wonder how effective the tutoring is.

As far as the super selectives go, I understand that you now have to be not only clever but tutored as it has become like an arms race, as "everyone" is now tutoring.

Copthallresident · 07/12/2012 08:46

castlesintheair I am not sure how to take that comment. I do have two dyslexic DDs and DD2 did get extra time! I am sorry your son didn't get through the first round for one school, but really with all DDs' peers, although there were some that didn't get in everywhere, they did get in somewhere that suited them. There isn't any accounting for off days, or papers that don't suit. Maybe the tutored one had a good day, I assume second round is an interview? They learn a lot at interview.

The very selective boys and SPGS are a bit of an exception as well. They don't get a very high proportion of state school pupils, the boys schools because they are not geared to 11+ entry, so there just aren't many places. I did challenge SPGS about the low proportion of state school entry and they said they started at a high level of attainment and weren't prepared to help pupils catch up. It was one of the things that put DD off.

I did actually ask for feedback after they got in to their very selective school. DD1 because the Head of her International School wanted to benchmark their levels of attainment and DD2 because I was concerned she had scraped in. On both occasions they said it wasn't about there being a finishing post, that they looked at each child individually, they highlighted the DDs' strengths, which were all about their abilities, and commented that in the main the weaknesses were that they made silly mistakes (which is typically dyslexic, except that we didn't even know DD1 was dyslexic at that stage). Attainment really didn't come into it, and in IIIrds they went back over Year 6 again for consolidation.

I really don't think that anyone gets into Oxbridge these days that doesn't totally belong there, the issue is that so many bright pupils don't get in. It is so much more competitive than it was in the past. There is the odd course that is a relic from the past that isn't so popular but otherwise they really are struggling to distinguish between the very, very bright for entry. It's as hard to get into other elite unis now as it was to get into Oxbridge not so very long ago. One thing I found really reassuring was that wherever DD's peers went, state or private, they got to the unis that you would expect from their ability.

Arisbottle · 06/12/2012 19:20

I have how posted on the wrong thread . I think the drugs have kicked in.

Arisbottle · 06/12/2012 19:19

As usual on a thread about state schools or comprehensives the assumption is that all comprehensives are failing their children . Sure some are, but not all .

I teach in a comprehensive which in every year group has children that are there who were bright enough to go the the grammar but choosed to attend the comprehensive . This means that the situation is not the "norm" and therefore blanket statements about them do not apply. Many if those children are the children of teachers who could and probably would tutor if they thought there was any point. It speaks volumes that they choose not to take the grammar route .

Reading about parents taking delight in the fact that their child can rip the shit out of another child makes me even more certain that I have made the right choice for most of my children .

I clearly still to raw to be on a MN thread . Off to find a nice corner of MN or to pop a sleeper.

castlesintheair · 06/12/2012 17:53

Elibean! I am really keen on a school that probably doesn't require much (or any) tutoring for your DDs if you are looking at private schools further down the line. I'll tell you about it when we meet. Soon!

Copthallresident, I really used to want to believe your last paragraph, probably in desperation and idealism, but after DS got turned down today for a highly selective school at the first round (which I expected) and his extremely highly tutored friend of equal ability (probably less in maths) got through, I suspect they don't really care if they are tutored or not, they just want the highest achievers at this stage. Sadly, I agree that many of these highly tutored children do go off the boil or just can't do it on their own: sometimes this doesn't become apparent until the first year at Oxbridge.

Copthallresident · 06/12/2012 17:18

Elibean Not wise at all Wink but experienced and with one now at uni and the other having just pitched out of a certain very selective girls school with rolling acres to sixth form in a urban coed, largely because of the bitching from a particularly nasty (and notorious) group of alpha girls who turned up there. It wasn't the schools fault, they could have turned up anywhere. GCSE results have plummeted them down the league tables this time too and teachers are tearing their hair out at finding themselves with sixth formers who don't want to learn (quite a lot of the ones who do having left ). It all rather makes a mockery of all that obsession with league tables, open days and desperation to get in. Funny thing is that DD1 walked in there and knew it was right and thrived, DD2 just wanted to go where big sis went but I felt where she has gone now felt right for her, tossed and turned the night before the letter of acceptance went in and dreamt the town centre school had rolling acres withy lovely kind sixth formers welcoming DD2 in!!! So I do know the getting in is the easy bit......

By the way both girls are dyslexic, DD2 got extra time at all indie entrance exams. They really do want the brightest rather than the ones that are tutored.

Needmoresleep · 06/12/2012 15:02

I too loved the Valium in the Y5 tea. 11+ for us was pretty awful. Sudden realisation that daughter was dyslexic and likely to struggle with independent school English papers, but to late to do much about it.

In Year 3 she had told us that one of her classmates received tutoring on both Saturdays and Sundays. This enabled us to grimace when passing the brilliant project work "produced" by said child and prominently displayed in the school reception, but otherwise had dismissed it as a bit odd. Then a friend revealed she lived next door to someone who did tutoring and it was really interesting who she had seen entering the house.

DD ended up applying to quite a lot of schools (5 independent and two selective state - not much hope on the latter but one was only 10 mins walk away so we needed to know she had tried; I now resist the sour grapes temptation to write to the school complaining about behaviour of their pupils on the bus) and got two. Luckily the two she wanted most - perhaps schools are good at selecting.

Our focus was to enter the exam as confident and equipped as she could be. For English I strongly recommend the Galore Park book. We used it in all sorts of ways. Write an essay first thing on a Saturday for an hour before we go out. Put together five essay outlines, again within an hour. Since it was a textbook there was scope to use the class discussion topics in the car or at dinner. Her older brother was really helpful. Oddly family involvement seemed to share the load. The point was for her not to be stressed but to go into the exam able to do as well as she could.

Indies are far nicer to exam candidates than state. These are, after all, potential customers, likely to pick up preferences dependent on food or friendliness. To be honest my daughter enjoyed the day off school. Rather than take her back to school we went out for a pizza and indeed at one school met up with her friends and all went out together. The child who fared worse was the one who did not sleep the night before the exam.

The article is a bit of a composite. I think the police were called to Wallington Grammar a few years back to help with crowd control and we have come across some extreme anxiety and over-tutoring. Looking back brings a bit of perspective. Some over those over-tutored kids really go off the boil at the upper end of secondary. They are bright enough but have not learned to enjoy and engage in education for its own sake. A real pity given the fantastic opportunities offered by some of London's schools.

People also forget that West London has lots of very good schools, most appearing in National top 100 tables. Certainly several people I know have decided to by-pass some of the "top 10" schools in order to have their children avoid this extreme anxiety.

Almost everyone gets something. Ideally only apply to schools you like and dont set you heart on one. Have a solid Plan B. If it all goes pear-shaped, and this is really rare (there was the girl who got four wait-list places (none of which came through...) it may be for the best. One friend is really pleased that their son ended up out of the London rat-race and in a sporty boarding school where he has thrived, probably more so than if he had been squeezed into one of the day schools he had initially tried for.

Sorry all rather long. Good luck. Glad we dont do that again.

Elibean · 06/12/2012 10:26

Copthall, you sound wise and experienced - I shall remember your advice (including Valium in Y5 tea Grin).

I don't think many parents in dd1's state primary class will be thinking of private schools, so stress levels may be a little lower than they clearly are for some Richmond parents.

Tbh, I find the pressured, competitive stuff so disagreeable that I need a lot of convincing that its worth it - I think I would only put dd through it if the desire came from her (I will take her to look around a whole variety of school when she's in Y5).

Ironically, she is actually being tutored at the moment - not because we want her to go anywhere in particular, but because she had some gaps in her early maths which meant she was under-confident for her ability. She's flying as a result, in terms of her current Y4 class, but am sure she wouldn't be in selective test terms!

castlesintheair · 05/12/2012 18:45

Katryn, thank you for linking your blog - that is exactly how I am feeling and trying desperately not to at the moment. My DS is sitting them all now and in January. Also from a state primary. I am dying to know which school your DS ended up at as we are in the same area ... Just curious, and desperate! I shall be so pleased once 14th Feb has been and gone!

West London parents do seem to be in a total frenzy. A tutor I know already had a waiting list of 35 last year for reception chidren who will not be starting tutoring with her until Year 5 in 20?? Crazy. Can I just say to parents who are embarking on the tutoring - we have done it from Feb in Yr 5 after much deliberating and I don't think I will do it with my other 2 DCs. The most effective help we have given our DS has come from us and working through exam questions/bond papers. Other people have said this to me too, though of course it's hard to tutor your own child without getting emotional, finding the time etc, etc. But even with all that I will still not be paying for another tutor. At the moment Xmas Wink

OhDearConfused · 05/12/2012 15:42

but actually doesn't matter too much what level he's at at end of year 6 since the tests will have been and gone months before.....

OhDearConfused · 05/12/2012 15:41

Farewell: The teacher looks at me as though I'm mad when I talk about him needing to be equivalent of level 5 by end of year 5.

Yep - I get those looks too. The parents of the kids at the top in the (likewise) excellent but ordinary state primary withthe full mix are the ones who hassle the teachers more about progress! And we want level 6 maths by end of year 6!

Miggsie · 05/12/2012 15:09

DD sat an exam for the local selective - it was a bit like this, but only about 130 children after 40 places.

We rejected the school (although DD passed the exam) due to the fact the parents was over competitive and fraught and I couldn't see how we would ever fit in.
DD also said the other girls were "not nice" and the test was "boring".

She is at a non selective now.

However, many many West London parents go through this - when you step back and look as an independent observer it is bonkers.

Farewelltoarms · 05/12/2012 15:02

ps I did book a tutor from jan 2014 y5 - she's just rung to say would I like one of the jan 2013 places and I said yes.
I hate myself!

Farewelltoarms · 05/12/2012 14:59

Katryn, I think you explain it really well both here and in the blog. I could empathise with all you say and it sounds as though at times you were cursing your mother's generosity. My dcs aren't at this point yet but I feel really angry at myself for hassling the teacher for levels and stressing about tutors because my eldest is already doing really well at his fab (but very ordinary) state primary. The teacher looks at me as though I'm mad when I talk about him needing to be equivalent of level 5 by end of year 5.
It's what surprises me about these private schools - not that they do so well, but why they don't do better. I wonder whether any school with the raw material they're getting wouldn't do as well.
And also take your point re the facilities. The private primaries we looked at were shocking, they didn't even have playgrounds, but the secondaries are a different matter.
I suppose also your story actually confirms what Copthall is saying - that despite all the scary statistics children do seem to end up with a place somewhere. I'm glad he's happy where he landed.

Katryn · 05/12/2012 10:25

Farewelltoarms Yes you're right to make the point that he may well end up at the same university as he would have done if he'd gone to CE state. In fact he's gone to a co-ed school, not highly academic boys. But as I said in my blog, once he'd looked round the glossy private, with its acres of playing fields, and compared it to the very very (outstanding) good state, (which seemed crowded in comparison and with not much access to outside space) he was hooked in to the private and really really wanted to go. Having put him through the process of tutoring and the exams, I couldn't then turn around and say actually you're going to the state - even though by then I felt it probably would have been as good, but in a different way. Hard to explain here.

harrassedswlondonmum · 04/12/2012 22:32

Copthallresident - I totally agree with you, you are spot on.

Interesting that you use the word "control" like I did - "However this is not comfortable for parents who want in some way to be in control of the process and really can't cope with not being able to do very much to influence the outcome."

In my opinion this is the reason for most of the angst!!

Katryn · 04/12/2012 21:00

Yes my DC did get a place at at one of the three schools he applied for and he's very happy there. But my advice coming from state primary, is to tutor and go through exam papers for much longer than we did - at least one year before the January exams.

AngelEyes46 · 04/12/2012 19:24

Headfairy - I think I know the RC school that your sister wants and distance is a low criteria - she should not have anything to worry about if her dd fits the catholic criteria

Farewelltoarms · 04/12/2012 18:31

Exactly. Most schools, on pure figures, are oversubscribed because almost everyone applies for more than one school. So these scary stats about 1000 for 100 places don't mean there are nine children left weeping without a place. That Toby Young is always going on about how oversubscribed his school is without clarifying that they are using figures which take all without taking into account which ones place them as a first choice.
Having said that I am freaked out by the idea of my ds poss doing some 11 plus style exams in a couple of years' time. But then I realise it's crazy when I meet the products of these elite procedures and they seem to end up in the exact same universities (smattering of Oxbridge, bit of Leeds, sprinkling of Sheffield) as the products of my local comp. I did enjoy Kathryn's blog post and found it heartfelt, but I wonder whether her boy will end up pretty similar whether he goes to academic boys school or c of e secondary.

helpyourself · 04/12/2012 18:06

^^ what cop said.
I know journalists and bloggers need copy, but these handwringing xy or z is ruining my child's life are part of the problem.

Copthallresident · 04/12/2012 16:59

Katryn For everything you say on the blog that ramps up people's anxiety I could say something to counter it. Yes big numbers apply to each school, but they each apply to more than one school, there are enough places to go around and you are only likely to lose out if you are too focused on certain highly selective schools and not including schools that your child has a realistic chance of success at.

Yes there are some tough questions on the exam papers but that is because schools are wanting to test every aspect of children's abilities, and even the brightest (and some of the brightest might actually not be very accurate when it comes to straightforward questions). Just because they are there does not mean they expect every child who gets in to get it right. The irony is that the schools that include the straightforward questions are with some justification accused of setting exams you can tutor for, whilst those who include reasoning type and more obtuse questions that are difficult to tutor to get accused of making the exams formidable... In the end they are wanting to select the children with most potential and they especially want the children from state schools with potential, so they take educational background into account when they assess pupils and they make sure that they set exams that are tests of potential not cramming. However this is not comfortable for parents who want in some way to be in control of the process and really can't cope with not being able to do very much to influence the outcome.

The most important thing you can do in the process is actually the opposite of that last sentence, relax, don't let your child think you care, don't set them up to think that one outcome is success and one failure, especially if the outcome marked success is a narrow target and the one marked failure a yawning chasm.

DD's friends whatever schools they went to at primary and secondary level have ended up at the universities that their ability would lead you to expect them to get to, including Oxbridge. A bright child from a caring and supportive family is going to be enabled to do well wherever they go to school.

OhDearConfused · 04/12/2012 12:39

Thanks, Kathryn, did he get one of the places he was after?
Hope so....
Any other tips for those of us coming from state primaries??

helpyourself · 04/12/2012 11:59

I give up.
The system needs a lot of stressed parents. Try not to buy into it.

helpyourself · 04/12/2012 11:58

Sorry. Blobby fingers.
Unclench and relax- l