What are peoples thoughts on the English Baccalaureate ??

Chloe, you seem to be mistaking a change in the curriculum (which teachers deal with what seems like every year and really isn't an issue) with valid concerns about a complete scrapping of the current exam system (which is being replaced by something as yet unknown but with vague messages about it being simultaneously more rigourous and yet also so broad that 80% of children will be expected to sit exactly the same exam) and about which many professionals (not just teachers, by the way) have expressed deep concerns.

My evidence that the exam will be more rigorous comes for the mouth of the Secretary of State for Education. I am pretty sure he didn't say he was going to create an easier exam that more people will be able to pass. And did say "The new EBCs will be robust, rigorous and relevant - and will match exams in the world's best education systems." Where is your evidence he is lying?

I am also pretty sure that classical physical has relevance to every person and profession in the country. Certainly its an important stepping stone to be learnt before moving to the more detailed area of subatomic particles. I think you trying unsuccessfully to be facetious.

When did Mr Dickens & Ms Austin(sic) leave the building?

I've been using Oliver Twist with bottom set year 9 today - we're comparing it to a more modern novel on young homelessness, from which it's to be hoped they'll glean a few practical pointers if the Tories get back in in 2015.

I used Bleak House in my after school GCSE lesson on descriptive writing, & I'm treating myself & year 7 to A Christmas Carol next month.

Year 9 (top set this time) also study Northanger Abbey as a gothic pastiche. Comes in handy when we do Henry James alongside Susan Hill in year 10.

& if you have a look at the level descriptors for KS3 English, you'll see for yourself the emphasis on 'Insisting children write coherently and grammatically with correct spelling'.

Honestly, the NC & exam specifications are freely available online. No excuse for this level of ignorance, chloe74 - although your own education may not have been all that if you were born in '74, to be fair. I attended grammar school in the '80s & the comprehensive I teach in now is quite a bit more exacting in its standards.

Chloe are you Sarah Vine? Can't imagine anyone else would have such charming faith in the man when he's clearly a buffoon.

OK, joking aside, yes, the system needs shaking up. My main issue with Gove's "improvements" is the lack if solid information about them. How in earth is ANYONE to make an informed decision when so few details have been released. No exam board has been created, no spec has bed released. You have no idea, Chloe, whether Austen and Dickens are there, because no syllabus has been written. Your assertions that it WILL be better are no more based on evidence than my feeling that it's a crock of shite. Until I see actual details, I will continue to assume that Gove is a teacher-hating tosser, with no idea what actually goes on in a state school.

chloe, your post rather proves your ignorance. I'm a state school English teacher. My year 8s are reading Great Expectations, year 9 are doing Animal Farm, year 10 Lord of the Flies and year 11s To Kill a Mockingbird. They've also done Wuthering Heights and in previous years Pride and Prejudice. All years do a Shakespeare play. Is that academic enough for you? Where on earth did you get the impression that Dickens and Austen aren't currently taught and need to be "re-introduced" to schools? Not the DM, I hope...

chloe74
where is your evidence that the new exam will be more rigorous
Gove certainly has none.
And knowing Newton is a triviality in applied science. Understanding Feynman diagrams is where its at now. (you do know what they are don't you?)

Given the option of believing a teachers speculation that a more rigorous exam system is just a punt in the dark and Michael Gove Secretary of State for Education backed by civil servants with access to educational experts haven't researched the reforms they are making is just pure nonsense. I don't see why an elected representative of the county has to prove himself to teachers, they are paid to teach not create the education system.

Reintroducing Charles Dickens and Jane Austin to English lessons. Insisting children write coherently and grammatically with correct spelling. Teaching 'British' history in lessons. A knowledge of the basic scientific principles like Kelvin's laws of thermodynamics and Newton's laws of motion. Its all common sense, why are so many teachers against it, what are they afraid of?

A MFL is essential for globalization, the evidence for that from other countries is overwhelming and its actually quite arrogant to say the rest of the world should speak English because we are to stupid to learn other languages. More assessment of teacher training applicants with tests of character and emotional intelligence. Trainee teachers spending more time in the classroom. Guidance on when to search pupils and when to use force. A single exam board for all exams. Being allowed to sack teachers for being in the BNP.

You cant argue about any of these improvements. This are proof that we finally have someone making our system better. And on the other hand we have teachers claiming its wrong because he hasn't proved it to us. I know where I put my faith.

That's not to say its not out there, which is why I asked if anyone had it.

Eh? If I didn't want to find it I wouldn't have looked for it! Like I said, all I could find was references to Gove claiming it had happened. All the news reports when the Ofqual report came out simply reported that apparently teachers marked too generously. If the Ofqual report said teachers were racist, no one apart from Gove seems to have picked up on it. From what I could see.

Perhaps you don't want to find it.

Incidentally, when my school did maths coursework back in the days before it was scrapped, teachers didn't mark it at all, we sent it all off to the exam boards for marking as we did with exams.

Not sure why the solution to problems with teachers marking controlled assessments would be to scrap them, instead of simply to mark them externally. Unpopular with the exam boards due to cost, I expect. Get the teachers to do it for free, then moan that teachers are apparently biased in favour of getting their students good grades.

Well I've just searched on google and can't find this evidence. I've found a couple of news reports that say Michael Gove says that ethnic minorities were marked down (while simultaneously everyone else was marked too generously, one wonders why exam boards bother with moderation when they are so obviously poor at it), but nothing to back it up.

Anyone got this evidence to hand?

EvilTwins: Re: Children from Ethnic Minority Groups unfairly marked down.

It came up in Ofquals, the qualifications watchdog, report which was conducted as a result of the recent GCSE's fiasco. Was all over the news too and covered on LBC etc. Not sure how you missed it.

There are thousands of teachers across the country. I doult that they all have the same prejudices. Infact I bet that at least 95 to 99% of teachers are highly professional and do their best to be fair.

However teachers are human and like the rest of us are prone to society's prejudices on a sub concious level.

If you're worried about gender bias against girls in education you should be really concerned about the scrapping of coursework by Gove. That style of assessment tends to suit girls more than boys.

I love how on the one hand education is sexist because of female teachers, lesson styles favouring girls' tendency to sit still and listen, lack of competition, coursework etc and on the other hand it's also sexist because teachers favour boys in the classroom. I'm so confused about which sex I'm supposed to be biased against today.

You miss my point... Old American research is simply not relevant. The American school system is very different to ours.

EvilTwins, there is no reason to think that American teachers are worse than teachers anywhere else. And if you have never heard of any action addressing the issue, it merely means that the issue is not addressed.

When clever people try to make things better

You mean when politicians announce in the tabloid media wide-ranging changes to education which will affect thousands of people without any evidence that it will be better, with no pilots to attempt to collect evidence and with reservations being expressed by a huge number of people not least members of their own government, it will, of course, be the fault of teachers if it is a bit shit.

Sadly exams do discrimate against people. It is a cruel world. Prehaps BSL level 2 should count as a foreign language for the EBac.

Signature and one of the deaf schools are developing GCSE BSL, but it won't count for the ebac.

Btecs and foundation papers are essential for keeping low achievers in education at least until they are literate and ready to work.

BTEC goes up to and includes HND - a first year of a degree course.

I have taught Level 3 Health and Social care and IMHO it is a far better introduction to something like nursing than A Levels.

During the course the students have to undertake some independent research and have to use Harvard referencing for all assignments. They underrtake an unpaid placement, so know the realities of wiping a shitty bum.

They learn about infection control and are assessed on hand washing.

All things that are usefull both at uni and in their future careers.

Why is there so much chatter about BTEC's, but the new changes have no affect on them? I also thought MN was supposed to be apolitical but there are so many left wing fundamentalists on here that it might as well be a Union. Are they all teachers?

When clever people try to make things better, there are so many teachers trying to make it fail that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Why don't you all grow up and behind the reform to make it work!

Viviennemary A lot of people who have BTECS as an entry qualification to University struggle on the degree courses. Likewise people who have done Access courses. Even more so Where is your evidence/sources for this statement?

I didn't struggle on my degree course despite undertaking my degree at the same time as doing 2 A levels and raising children at the same time!

If you read my earlier post regarding BTECs they are a lot more vigorous at the higher grades than the general public are aware of mainly because they either read the DM or too much MN As they are in their nature vocational they actually teach the students to look at the scenario/question/context rather than just relying on theory alone.

My current year 11 students who are being raced through a GCSE whilst completing their BTEC (because of all this nonsense) have laughed at the knowledge and work required to gain a GCSE in my subject.
They already have the exam technique down to a fine art as they are used to looking at the scenario and applying the theory they have learnt rather than just relying on fact regurgitation (which exam boards state is a reason for lower grades).

I fully agree with an earlier poster who promoted all students having to undertake a vocational qualification along side with the academic subjects - that way every student has the same experiences and chances no matter their ability to discover their talents, strengths and ambitions for their future

An American blog from 2006. Not terribly convincing "evidence".

all the findings of gender studies

yep, this is better

So, the teachers remain being unprofessional after [http://www.amptoons.com/blog/2006/11/16/gender-bias-in-the-classroom-do-teachers-give-boys-more-attention/ all the findings of gender studies]? Nothing was changed in their training, they were unprepared to this natural challenge and nobody helps them?

This thread is eye-opening to say the least about what the public thinks of teachers...the markers of external exams are teachers too y'know, and the candidates' names are on the papers. What's to stop us being nasty racists and marking down the ethnic minority students?

Good job I've had all that training to remind me not to be racist or to give my favourite pupils the best marks [sceptical]