Silly things teachers think will work

But I do mark in red pen sometimes - generally when DD has stolen my favourite green or purple ones, but also for assessed practical papers....

And anyway, IF you read my comments properly, you'll see my "why should she know" comment was specifically about the OP.

I don't want violent children in my classroom. And there have been a few.

This "bunch of teachers", were they really saying they want violent children in their classes? How strange.

No one marks in red any more. If you had the faintest idea what you were on about, you'd know that.

"rather than by permanent exile to Siberia or feeding to the school's attack dogs."

oh yes, I remember suggesting those

No actually I think I remember suggesting isolation units and... being spit roasted anyway.

You said "in comparison with what"

I don't need to look at outcomes anywhere else in the world in order to believe we could do better. That's the difference.

No, Brycie, we said the vast majority of situations necessitating removing students could be successfully handled in-house by use of Inclusion/Isolation Units, rather than by permanent exile to Siberia or feeding to the school's attack dogs.

(Although I'm not so sure about Naveed...)

"I don't think all parents have no clue"

That's terrific - now try not to repeat your earlier sweeping generalisations or I may have to reach for my red pen!

How are you defining low expectations?

"No, teachers aren't wild about having violent kids in the classroom either, I think you'll find."

Well I had a conversation with a bunch of teachers where I said children should be removed and I was spit roasted. So while they may not be wild about it they're damned if they'll allow a parent to say so.

Brycie - I don't think all parents have no clue. Some of them are also teachers.

Parents need to take some responsiblity for their children. Too many kids come to school thinking they can do what they like. They get that attitude from home, not school.

What noblegiraffe has said.

What baffles me is that teachers are somehow being blamed for these children being in the classroom when surely this is a parental fault.

Did the teacher bring up the child to think it was OK to threaten them? No.

See there's the problem Raven. Low expectations. You just look at the outcome and think there's no possible better outcome.

Noble: "really you can't extrapolate that teachers simply ignore the views of parents from the response to the OP on this particular thread. " I didn't do that then - don't know why you said that. But I'm quite happy to say that some do, and I'm saying it now. But I didn't extrapolate it from anything.

ET: "I do not therefore think that ALL parents have no clue."
You shouldn't say things like this then:

"The OP is not a teacher, and therefore has no idea whether such things are "silly" or whether they "will work". "
"why WOULD the OP know whether things were silly and whether they worked? It's not her job to know such things"

because clearly, from these statements, you do. I don't mind if you want to disagree with yourself here.

& I don't have violent kids in my classroom. Rude & objectionable ones sometimes, or lazy.

Better educated & better disciplined by comparison with...?

I quite like most of the 16 year olds I teach, & they're certainly better educated than I was at a well-regarded but rather complacent grammar in the 80s.

Yet if a parent says they don't want children like this disrupting the school and you get lectured by teachers about inclusion.

No, teachers aren't wild about having violent kids in the classroom either, I think you'll find.

Inclusion is why they're still in the classroom. But that's not the fault of teachers.

Some of what is going on in schools must be a bit silly or we'd have better educated and better disciplined 16-year-olds. I go with the National Curriculum rather than blaming teachers.

Apart from the "gold plated pensions " bollocks, I'd like to pick up on a genuine misunderstanding.

There is a difference between parental interference and parental support.

Teachers do not need parents ringing up or emailing all the time about every last thing, or arguing why "darling Jocasta" didn't deserve that detention, or can't do it because she has dance class, or something else equally undermining to the school behaviour management system.
This wastes teacher time, undermines their authority, and is a major pain in the backside. You would have had a letter or email explaining exactly why they got a detention, and I'm sorry but your precious darling will never tell you the whole story or context.

Parental support means the parent has read and understood the home-school agreement that they signed. Parental support means that when "precious Louis" gets bollocked at school, he also gets bollocked at home by people whose opinion matter to him. Parental support means sending your child to school on time, fed with actual food not energy drinks, with pens and pencils etc.

I teach in an affluent catchment area that I could never afford to live in. The less affluent kids tend to be the nicer, and actually we tend to get better parental support for them. The more affluent kids tend to think they can argue their way out everything, think that rules don't apply to them, and then Mummy will rescue them anyway. Which she will try to do. That's parental interference.

Rant over,

Oh, and my sixth form students just love getting the paints and sugar paper out to eg draw structural formulae, and love getting sticker...

And why are you targeting teachers as if they are responsible?

Teachers have just as much control over these problems as you do. All they can do is make the best of a syllabus handed down to them by a higher authority. Do you think they all go to some sort of annual convention and vote on what they teach, how they discipline the kids and anything else to do with their jobs? They have little to no control over anything and are simply trying to make the best of it by educating children to achieve their full potential.

That's why teachers strike in the first place, because they can't even fart in the classroom without someone breathing down their neck's telling them how it should smell.

I don't think that "parents" don't have a clue, I just think that the OP doesn't have the right to hear about one thing being tried in a classroom from one child, and assume that it is "silly" and that it "won't work". I disagree with the OP, who is an individual. I do not therefore think that ALL parents have no clue. I am a parent as well as a teacher.

What bugs me is people who don't have a full understanding of something feeling that they have a right to disregard it without trying to find out the facts. That's not limited to teaching or to teachers and parents. It's arrogant.

"Last week a student threatened to stab my husband because he dared to push him to actually participate in class work.

Two weeks before that the police had to be called to the school for another even more serious incident."

Why are these children even in school? Yet if a parent says they don't want children like this disrupting the school and you get lectured by teachers about inclusion.

Chloe, when your opinion is not "factual", then surely that makes it ill-informed, rather than informed.

I am very happy to explain what I do to parents, and indeed make quite a lot of effort to do so. But I'm not overly keen on people describing how I do things as "silly", when they do not have my experience and expertise.

chloe, so move from the private sector into teaching then, its as simple as that. It seems as if you are deviating from the original point of discussion in order to vent some ill informed views.

Last week a student threatened to stab my husband because he dared to push him to actually participate in class work.

Two weeks before that the police had to be called to the school for another even more serious incident.

Teaching is not easy, much like most other public sector jobs, it is demanding and underpaid.

Well there's one teacher here who thinks parents don't have a clue and I've experienced it elsewhere too. All I'm saying is that it's equally damaging. I'm not saying all teachers think that. I'm saying there's evidence of it on this thread, and I think it's equally damaging? Well now you can't deny there's evidence on this thread, but you can say whether you agree with it or not. And whether you think it's damaging.

"why WOULD the OP know whether things were silly and whether they worked? It's not her job to know such things"

like this for example