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Original poster

To Be Shocked That DS Got A 'D' In His First Half-Termly Report At Grammar School

113 replies

gazzalw · 12/11/2012 13:19

Not sure if I'm looking for reassurance or what but here goes...

DS has always been regarded as very good at maths by his teachers and us (well he was at primary school) and got a Level 5A in his KS2 SATs. He did do Level 6 and didn't pass but we assumed that was because he was actually ill when he did the exam (not an excuse but he did have slapped cheek virus quite badly) and the primary school teacher who was coaching his year to the Level 6 curriculum was off sick for the last half term so they didn't complete the work.

We had always assumed that he had passed his three 11+ exams on the basis of his maths, NVR/VR skills rather than his English (for which he got a 5B in KS2 SATS) which has never been his strongest subject not one that particularly interests him.

Note he hasn't been tutored in maths at all.

Anyway, going to a super-selective we were under no illusions that he would be a top dog in any subject, but in maths would have probably expected him to be average in the class. Looking at how he's been getting on in his homework it doesn't look as if he's had any major issues with not understanding the work.

So imagine our shock (and his) when he got his first report and although he has got Bs for most subjects (including English) which put him in the middle of the class (no problem with that especially as he is quite lazy), he got a 'D' for maths and is apparently one of the bottom three in the class of 30 boys!

What would your opinion be? I guess it might just be a reflection of the fact that in a boys grammar school they are generally maths whizzes, that a lot of them have been tutored and are working well above the baseline levels that you would expect even of grammar school children, that maths is one of those subjects that it's easier to coach ahead in and a lot of them have been coached ahead (he says that most of them have tutors although difficult to know whether that is indeed true), that he wasn't taught to such a high standard as other boys at his primary school or that he just isn't naturally as good at maths as his cohort?

I know that as parents we can think our children are brilliant when they're obviously not, but the thing is we have always wholeheartedly felt he has some latent skill at maths - maybe he has but just compared to his classmates it doesn't seem that way!

That would essentially put him in the bottom group in his Year (unless he just happens to be in the class most capable at maths!) which I find hard to believe as he is quite clearly a lot more competent than we were at the same age (and we went to grammar schools and were not in the bottom sets)

Hope to get some insights rather than being shouted down....I guess the bottom line is that in high achieving grammars someone has got to be at the bottom ;-(....

OP posts:
MordionAgenos · 12/11/2012 20:40

@yellow I don't find it that helpful myself. But I guess that's what happens when you just have one child there. It might become more easy to understand by the time you're on child 7! It's the 'expected for the school' bit that I never quite get - expected for the school bed on average historic performance? Or expected for the school based on what a similar cohort when they started went on to do? I did think at the beginning that it must be norm referenced but DD1 assures me it isn't. I've given up caring now - well, I've given up stressing. We get additional feedback because of her SEN and that indicates she's doing great so I let the rest wash over me.

It is wierd though - DS came home from his school today saying he had got a level 6 in a French test (he's Y8). I have no idea if that's good or bad. Blush

seeker · 12/11/2012 20:35

"It's a real jump for DC from state primary."
Any secondary school is a real jump from any primary school.

racingheart · 12/11/2012 20:24

I'd be comforted by his attitude. 'The only way is up,' is a great response to that knock back. Sounds like he won't be complacent for long, if he ever was.

It's a real jump for DC from state primary.

Original poster
gazzalw · 12/11/2012 17:03

Thank you everyone for your feedback (and hello, mumwithtwokids!).

No, not everyone will have been tutored - DS said half of his class want to be accountants though so maybe they're already fine tuning their maths skills :-).

I guess it's very early days and it will probably take a while before the playing field is levelled - maybe that's why they don't set until year 9?

Just a bit of a shock! I think we will wait until his parents' evening. Until we have spoken with his maths tutor we don't really have the whole picture.

Have reiterated do DS that if he has any problems with understanding that he has to ask us to help him....

Have to say that the report came in such a strange format (not like any report I've ever seen before) that it took us a while to interpret.....

I can't recall that we were ever basically graded quite like that.....

OP posts:
seeker · 12/11/2012 17:02

Absolutely. If the school's own system is properly explained, that's fine. But in this case, it obviously hasn't been. At least with the NC levels, you can easily look up what they mean. A school's individual system is useless without a rubric.

Yellowtip · 12/11/2012 16:54

Our reports aren't based on NC levels and tbh a lot of parents don't have a clue what they are - I didn't until recently. I find A - E much easier to understand and our reports state clearly what each grade means (A = attainment above that expected for the year group, B = attainment expected for the year group, C = below that expected etc. ). Much moe helpful as far as I'm concerned. I've never had a clue what levels mine are working at in terms of NC once they start secondary, only how they're doing within the context of the school. That's fine by me, keeps it simple.

mumwithtwokids · 12/11/2012 16:45

Hi Gazza - I really wouldn't worry, I know it's hard not to but please don't.

Do you have parent's evening coming up soon? If not I would just drop a quick email to his head of year just expressing your concern. We've done this recently for something completely different and the school were absolutely brilliant. They as much as you want your DS to be happy and do well so I'm sure they won't think you are overreacting.

And please do not think your DS is at a disadvantage because he hasn't been tutored. My DS wasn't tutored either however there are one or two boys in his class who still have tutors!

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 12/11/2012 16:16

Yup, what seeker said.

GrimmaTheNome · 12/11/2012 15:06

DD is at a GS ...they don't set them for maths till yr9 (the only subject they set for at all). I guess they think that they're all pretty able but that it takes that long to equilibrate . DH was talking to a teacher at the boys' GS who said that boys from a particular private school with an excellent maths teacher always started out streets ahead ...but a couple of years later, the ones who weren't naturally so good would have dropped back a bit.

These are selective but not super-selective schools so this sort of effect is liable to be more pronounced in your DSs case.

seeker · 12/11/2012 15:01

I would expect some sort of explanation for any report that doesn't use NC levels- what on earth use is "D" to anyone? I would ring and talk to the teacher- just ask for a bit more information.

musttidyupmusttidyup · 12/11/2012 14:55

Agree that giving them a class position is old fashioned - what value they add is the current thinking.
He'd know if he'd done CATs - 3 hours of testing.

gelo · 12/11/2012 14:29

given that the ds seemed surprised about the grade too and the books look OK, it could be as simple a thing as mistaken identity. Do speak with the teacher and find out more, but no need to panic this instant.

FourTables · 12/11/2012 14:18

Could the D relate to current GCSE equivalent score perhaps? Although I assume if it did, the school woud make that clear Hmm.

Getting a D when you are used to being near the top must be difficult to understand, especially when despite being at a new school, your DS thought he was about average. All the more reason to have a quick word with the teacher to find out exactly why. You don't want your DS to be demoralised when some further explanation could be enlightening...

Yellowtip · 12/11/2012 14:15

So what Sparkle? Because for the long term Op probably wants not to be seen by his DSs teachers as someone who over-reacts and comes racing into school for the slightest thing. He has a parents evening in a couple of weeks. In that context in would be way over the top to insist on an appointment with a busy maths teacher.

Also I'd say it would be a very bad idea to bring in a tutor. The DS is very new at the school, probably has just the right amount of homework etc., is still finding his feet and what he probably needs least in his life at the moment is to flog out to some tutor totally unconnected with the school and very possibly a rip-off on dark winter evenings. Sounds like a recipe for turning him right off school.

There really is no need to panic at this stage. None.

Original poster
gazzalw · 12/11/2012 14:15

Well maybe the measure of it will be when they start doing things in maths that not many of them have previously studied. I will have to ask DS whether he's covered lots of new ground this half-term. Maybe he is learning new things and a lot of the others are just reinforcing what they already know?

Yes, OwlLady I think you are right, and you can just 'get' some parts of maths and not others.

OP posts:
OwlLady · 12/11/2012 14:12

Personally I think they go through peaks and troughs with maths, if that helps?

Original poster
gazzalw · 12/11/2012 14:11

Thanks everyone for putting things into perspective - I guess the telling thing that he is generally a 'B' so he is holding his own. As my SIL so wisely put it, some subjects require maturity and depth of knowledge whereas maths is one of those subjects that children can be pushed ahead in from a young age....

OP posts:
tiggytape · 12/11/2012 14:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sparkleandshine78 · 12/11/2012 14:06

I think you do need an appointment with the teacher - mainly because this is a surprise... it is counter to the way you (and he) thought things were going. Forget over anxious parent, so what? isn't this about getting the best for your DS? If neither you or DS understand what this report means or reflects you need a one-to -one chat with the teacher.

Re: tutoring, this was mainly a thought about your DS may need help with 'how to work' 'how to study' 'how to do homework' etc. rather thank help with a specific subject. I went to comprehensive and really lacked studying skills as was relatively bright and did well without too much effort, fast forward to A-levels and very nearly failed completely as didn't have ANY skills needed.

Yellowtip · 12/11/2012 14:05

gazzalw don't worry, really. Your DS got a 5A from an ordinary state primary which didn't stretch him and he wasn't tutored. He's very able. The fact that he was surprised by his mark is good. Even if he is still lazy for a while the teachers will get his measure very soon and these superselectives have ways and means to get the slightly lazy boys moving. Even if it takes time, don't worry - he needs to get there in his own time, up to a point. He needs to enjoy school too. I still can't fathom what makes boys like yours and mine spark up: DS1 got moving quicker then DSs 2, 3 and 4 but they all seem to get there in the end (in some cases right at the very, very end!). I think the fact that he hasn't been tutored is very positive indeed. Give him time.

Original poster
gazzalw · 12/11/2012 14:03

Yes rationally I can see that, HellothisisJoanie - one has no idea about his cohort and unless one does know what levels they entered at it's not necessarily helpful.....

It is difficult to interpret data presented in such a way...maybe a shortcoming of the grammar system????

Well the remark from your DS1's teacher puts it in perspective, doesn't it .... mind you it certainly wasn't like that at the grammars DW and I went to - I failed my O Level and DW got a C- from Division 3!)

OP posts:
difficultpickle · 12/11/2012 14:03

I went from top of my year mostly and top of my class always in primary to 26/30 first year in grammar. It was a real wake up call as I had been having too much fun with my new friends. I pulled my socks up in the second year and came third in the year. I got a prize for the most improved pupil (which I felt a bit of a fraud in accepting).

Sounds to me as if the mark will be the wake up call he needs. I wouldn't be overly concerned but I would have chat with the teacher to understand what has been used to compile that grade (ie assessments, homework, classwork etc).

HellothisisJoanie · 12/11/2012 13:56

its VERY old fashioned to give places in the class and tbh slightly pointless

HellothisisJoanie · 12/11/2012 13:55

you know though. s1 is in hte bottom set for maths at a grammar.
I was all GASPY then the teacher said
"oh yes at least half of them get As"

Original poster
gazzalw · 12/11/2012 13:54

Thanks everyone for responses - will try to answer as best I can:

No we have asked him how he's been getting on and he implied that he considered himself "in the middle of the class".

I am not sure what the grade is based on (whether it's a combination of classwork, homework and tests or any combination of the above).

We know he was in the bottom three because the grade one's son got is highlighted in black and includes a white number indicating how many boys in total were given that grade!

No Blu we haven't 'written him off' yet Grin - it's just a shock!

No unfortunately he doesn't even have the summer born factor to work in his favour - he is a 'middling' in his year child! Well he was at primary school but not sure now!

I think he's been assessed in line with his peers rather than on the basis of his KS2 score.

He got a D for attainment and a 3 (average - 15 boys in total out of 30 got that score) for effort.

I am not aware that he has done CAT tests - how would one know? I know that his peers who went to comprehensives did those before they started (or right at the beginning of term) but don't think that DS has.

I'm sounding a bit vague but only because the report sheets didn't really give any additional information which would have been of any use to me!

I guess we will just have to sit it out until his parents' evening (at the end of the month).

What I do know though is that the last teacher DS had at primary school wasn't very good at maths at all (which is why they had to have another teacher to teach for the Level 6 stuff) and DS only made one sub-level of progress twixt Years 5 and 6 (which we didn't consider good enough really)

Well yes, there's all this huge thing with the grammar schools saying that they don't want heavily tutored children but then those who haven't been (such as DS) then seem to be disadvantaged for being naturally able but not tutored to higher levels.....

HMMMMM

OP posts: