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Can someone explain the state school catchment system to me?

112 replies

scubacat2292 · 22/10/2012 22:38

We are relocating to London from the United States in the next two months and I am really concerned about finding good schools for my boys. Independent schools are out of the question due to the high costs, so I need to find good state schools for them. While I've been researching, I'm getting more and more confused about how the system works. People have said to be sure to live in the catchment area of a good school, but then say some are oversubscribed. Does that mean even if you live in the area, you won't get in? And if we move now in December, will we be able to get in for January? I've seen people talk about entrance exams and deadlines, about there being no secondary schools for certain areas, etc. How can that be? In the US, if you live within the boundaries of a school, you go to that school. It doesn't matter if it is "full" -it must take your child. I'm guessing London doesn't work that way? Can someone please help me out here. :)

My boys are 13, 10, and 7, so we need both primary and secondary. We are looking in the surrounding areas of London - anywhere within 30 to 40 minutes to the Waterloo station would be fine.

OP posts:
scubacat2292 · 27/10/2012 18:05

KandyBarr - It's a good point. He was thinking if he gets on at Morden then he's the first on the line, gets a seat, and checks his email while he travels in. We didn't really consider the line back. What do you think of the central line? He could head West out to West Ruislip without any transfers? Is there wifi on the tube?

LIZS - I would say that my research shows it's not quite equal. The amount we save by removing the train pass doesn't add enough to make the rents possible. So although I might save 200p by removing the train line, I can't find a 3bed flat for 1700 instead of 1500. So we are looking to live a little farther out and hopefully save on a cheaper flat, or bike to the station, or something like that.

OP posts:
LIZS · 27/10/2012 11:00

Think you need to consider the whole financial picture so say you allocate 2k a month for housing/commuting round here that might just about cover a small 3 bed semi or terrace (£1400), train fare (£300), parking at station (£100) and council tax. Just outside M25 , train 40 mins to Victoria or London Bridge (underground to near Holborn or LB has frequent connections to Waterloo East) or Thameslink. However for same 2k you could pay more in rent for similar house, less in travel , nothing in parking by living within the London Travelzones within walking distance of a station . Horses for courses.

However living within the travel zones ie. outer London doesn't guarantee a quicker commute, may be a culture shock depending on what you are used to, and also you should bear in mind that, depending on his line of work, a 9am start and 5pm get away may simply not be realistic.

MrsVincentPrice · 27/10/2012 10:14

Yes good point Kandy, the journey back at 5-7 pm is No Fun (always surprised by just how long the evening rush "hour" lasts)

KandyBarr · 27/10/2012 09:51

That's true, MrsVincent - but I was thinking of the Northern Line return evening journey. I'm a veteran of Chancery Lane - Clapham South with change at TCR - it was truly miserable

twoterrors · 27/10/2012 08:40

DoodleNoo, good luck with your CAF.

The thing about a late application though, is after the first round of offers, you slot into the waiting list according to the admissions criteria - the OP won't go to the back of the queue. And even very popular, oversubscribed schools usually take some children from the waiting list because someone will go private, move abroad, be moving elsewhere etc etc. So if the OP moves very very close to a school with distance as the main criteria, she will jump ahead of everyone who applied on time but lives further away and whose application relies on distance.

OP, I think all most Londoners want is a "nice decent school" with caring teachers and engaged children. There are plenty of oversubscribed schools that are not "the very top one". Not trying to be discouraging, just to warn you that in some areas of London, this is a real problem. I think you need to do your research carefully and get very close to a school you like the look of - not just in its general vicinity because you could then fall between two stools and get nothing (for a while) or a distant school or one that you would not consider. That may mean choosing a less desirable on the face of it area, given your budget.

Very good luck.

MrsVincentPrice · 27/10/2012 08:32

Actually getting the Northern line in from Morden isn't too bad, and the service itself is fine, just really overcrowded - it becomes hellish further up, and by the time you get to the three Claphams getting on a train in the morning becomes distinctly iffy, not to mention hazardous. But if you get on at the first station you're laughing.

I don't think there's a car park though, and it's not a particularly quick way of getting a-z, City Thameslink would be way faster (though probably also v crowded).

KandyBarr · 27/10/2012 08:04

Avoid Northern Line commutes - it's known as the Misery Line.

As someone said earlier, City Thameslink station is your best bet - five mins walk from Chancery Lane. Download the station's connections map here (second link down on these results, work out which suburbs or towns along the lines you can afford, then use the National Rail Enquiries link to calculate commuting times.

scubacat2292 · 27/10/2012 01:03

Kewcumber - I don't need furnished. The company will move our entire house if I want, although I know it won't all fit. His actual stop will be Chancery Lane, which seems a bad connection to anything, so we were thinking he could drive over to Morden and take the Northern Line to Bank, and then the Central line to Chancery. That's Zone 4 to Zone 1, so saves us the train fare and the multiple connections you were talking about. How much does it cost to park at the Morden station? I looked on their website but didn't see a cost.

If that's a feasible option, then living in Surbiton, Claygate, Chessington might work? But if that's not realistic, then please let me know. I REALLY appreciate all the suggestions and feedback I'm getting from you ladies. It really is helping me figure this all out!

OP posts:
scubacat2292 · 27/10/2012 00:49

DoodleNoo -You've lost me. I don't know what EN2 means. And I don't get the whole "I wouldn't necessarily expect to get a place immediately though." What do you do with your kids if they don't have a place? Don't they have to go to school somewhere??? Wouldn't the LA just put them in a nearby school instead?

Yes, I've been reading up a lot on the school situation and I realize that we will be coming in after all the applications have been put in. But I'm not interested in being in the very top school - just a decent one. It needs to be safe and with caring teachers and reasonable facilities. I will trade excellent test scores for happy children who are engaged and encouraged. Honestly, I would rather avoid those crazy oversubscribed excellent schools and find a nice decent school that we could get into and stay at that isn't too far from our new home. Is that too much to ask? lol

And no, we're not looking for glamorous or exciting. Just family friendly and safe. :)

OP posts:
DoodleNoo · 26/10/2012 23:52

Just read more of your thread. I think on that budget, you may have to decide whether you want to compromise on the commute or the availablilty of good schools! You could easily rent a three bed house with garden in a safe, leafy area of suburban Enfield N London for £1400/month. Fares are about £200/month and DH could be at work door to door in less than 1 hour. If you stick to EN2 postal area all schools are fine. I wouldn't neccesarily expect to get a place immediately though - you may have to go on a waiting list. Or the N14 postal area near to Southgate or Oakwood tube station. Very family friendly areas, with good access to lovely countryside - but perhaps not very glamorous or exciting. London Borough of Barnet may also be a good option but I don't know the specifics of locations and schools.

DoodleNoo · 26/10/2012 23:31

We live in North London and I've literally just submitted my Y6 daughter's application for secondary school this evening ahead of next week's London-wide deadline. I have our local authority (LEA) handbook to hand and with regard to "late" applications they say "if you apply after 31st October 2012 your child will not be considered for a place until after the initial offer of places on 1 March 2013. The authority does however reserve the right to accept a late application where it considers there are exceptional reasons for the application not being received in time".

I daresay yours is an exceptional reason ? but even so, move and apply just as soon as you can, before the LEA starts the process of working out who should get a place where. Certainly in our Borough (Enfield) the few schools which will be left with places after 1 March are probably the ones you really don?t want and I would guess this is the same across the whole city.

I don?t envy you ? it?s a bad enough scramble for places when you live here ? and you may have to be prepared to settle for something a bit less than ideal to begin with. But you can always go onto waiting lists and hopefully something else will come up. Good luck!

Kewcumber · 26/10/2012 23:18

Thats true calming but where a brit might settle quite happily may be a stretch for an ex-pat (from experience settling ex-pats!)

CalmingMiranda · 26/10/2012 22:14

Streatham Hill a little above budget, but close to 2 good secondaries and 2 good primaries. Travelcard from Tulse Hill.

The thing about safe areas - because London is so expensive, most of us, the vast majority of ordinary Londoners, teachers, white collar workers, retail managers, librarians, publishers etc all live in areas right next up to or even right in the middle of areas considered rough. Rumours and reputations abound: N Londoners are highly suspicious of S London, ordinary people who live happily in the centre of Peckham will shudder 'knowingly' at the idea of living in Brixton, and vice versa. We all travel late at night on the tube and on overground lines that have some bad housing estates, and some highly desirable mansions, often in the same road.

It all takes some getting used to - London is confronting, but it's worth it!

Kewcumber · 26/10/2012 21:32

Surbiton is a bit cheaper at £200 per month so he might be prepared to trade off more difficult journey against £100 per month.

Kewcumber · 26/10/2012 21:29

Lots of commuter towns will cost £300-£400 per month to commute

Kewcumber · 26/10/2012 21:27

I worked with lots of people relocating from the states in the past (european CFO for an American ad agency) and people were often shocked by the cost of living in London but you have to compare it not with Detroit or Orlando or Nice or Valencia or Dusseldorf but with New York or Tokyo or Moscow and you'll see its really very comparable.

You wouldn't expect to move to Manhattan (or very close to it) and live in a decent area in an appt with 3 beds unless you're prepared to live in Washington HEights or Harlem (I know some people would say thats fine - but probably not where you'd ideally want to be as an expat).

If your DH needs to get to Holborn then you seriously need to be looking north of the river if he doesn't want a long or boring commute. Hinchley Wood, Claygate and SUrbiton are all fine but all south of the river.

Example: this property in surbiton www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-34108012.html no garden but close to surbiton station for £1600 furnished, would involve a train journey and tube tube journeys - technically I would only take 40 mins on a good day but generally the way to minimise travel stress on public transport is to minimise changes so ideal one journey then walk at either end or if thats not possible one train journey and one tube ride or tube all teh way with max one change.

Thats my opinion as a dyed in the wool commuter. The most exhausting aspects of commuting is the changes between lines/trains and waiting around for trains.

Is your DH used to commuting by public transport at the moment?

You can use this site journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/user/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en&sessionID=TLJJP16P1_1577786358&requestID=2&command=changeRequest to check commute times but don;t beleive it when it tells you buses take 10 minutes - no buses take 10 mins at the height of the rush hour unless you are either travelling only 0.5 miles (in which case walk) or there are bus lanes all the way and only 1 other person on the bus who is getting off afetr you!

RiversideMum · 26/10/2012 21:21

London is expensive! If you go east on the Central tube line from Holborn out to somewhere like Woodford, you could probably get a 3 bed semit detached house for your budget. You could probably get similar in Surbiton - but not sure how the travel costs/times would compare.

scubacat2292 · 26/10/2012 19:59

Mummytime - you think my budget of 1500-1650 for a flat is very low?

We originally planned to live in Guildford, but found the cost of train and tube passes would be 390pounds per month and still take him an hour and a half. So now I'm thinking closer in, so cheaper tickets and shorter commute. My husband's company does give us a huge amount for commuting, but honestly we need all of that money just to bridge some of the gap in the difference in pay from here to there. We're are seriously losing 15,000 pounds per year to make this move when you consider the pay cut and increased taxes. And that is if I use the commute allowance just to live on. So I'm trying to keep our expenses as low as possible - we're not fancy people. We don't need a huge house or a massive garden. I have three kids, so I need three bedrooms (the two youngest will share) and at least two toilets in the house. I need a kitchen and enough room for 5 of us to sit around a table. I need a safe street, and a good school. I don't really need a garden as long as there are trees around and a park somewhere nearby (I have a massive yard here in the states and we hardly ever use it!). We are willing to really cut back in order to make our dream of living abroad for a few years happen, and we can always come back to our American materialism and consumerism after that! LOL

What do you guys think of Hinchley Wood, Claygate, Surbiton area??

OP posts:
KandyBarr · 26/10/2012 17:24

You can use the National Rail Enquiries site to check journey times on all train routes. St Albans trains go directly from St Pancras station, which is right next door to King's Cross. Journey time is between 19 and 37 minutes, and would estimate Holborn is a half-hour walk from St Pancras. So if you were to rent a house right by St Albans station, you would be within shouting distance of an hour's commute at least some of the time.

mummytime · 26/10/2012 16:04

Sorry but your budget is very very low. Also the cost of commuting might also come as a shock. Is your DHs company helping much ?

Kewcumber · 26/10/2012 15:14

At that budget London itself much more limited - assuming you want some outside space.

There are only 74 furnished flats with outside space within London £1500-£1750

You might be lucky but I would say if you want to live somewhere nice you 'll have to look at the commuter towns

Kewcumber · 26/10/2012 15:07

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1244&maxPrice=1750&minBedrooms=3

St Albans within your price range - I would go walking distance to station personally.

KandyBarr · 26/10/2012 12:31

OP - Miranda's suggestions are great, but waaaaay out of price range - a family house in Clapham or Herne Hill will be more like £1600 a week to rent. Bromley, Beckenham, Croydon, Merton might be more like it.

And 'dodgy' or 'worrisome' places aren't just confined to south London - you'll find them on all points of the compass in this city. I commuted on a midnight train alone for six months from London Bridge through New Cross, Peckham, Tulse Hill, in recent months - all areas probably on your friend's list - and never once felt threatened. Ironically, New Cross is home to Hatcham College - one of London's most sought-after secondaries. London's a jumble - there are no certainties (other than a lack of affordable homes in leafy areas with good schools and quick commutes).

CalmingMiranda · 26/10/2012 12:05

The Thameslink line is absolutely fine. yes, some of the stops serve areas which include some very inner-city pockets of urban deprivation, but London is like that.

Myatts Fields is nowhere near Herne Hill...they are very broad brush stroke in area these property search companies - look at there they are on googhle maps.

prh47bridge · 26/10/2012 08:19

The deadline for secondary school admissions is October 31st across all of England.

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