Year 9 - an hour of homework on weekdays unreasonable?

Siblings can be horrible to each other at times - DD went through a phase of saying she hated DS which tore my heart out as I would have given anything to have had a sibling!

I agree with Maryzed.

And can you carve out some time for you both to go for a coffee and cake together (preferably when she is in a good mood), when you can chat to her as a growing-up teen rather than being the nagging mum? We are planning to do this later!

I think you did brilliantly to get her
a) apologise
b) unload that dw! who cares if other people's children have been unloading dws since they were 7, for her that was a first step, and I guarantee that the next time she does it, it will be a whole lot less hasselly. We had this with our ds1, the screaming and screaming over simple tasks (in his case to write two sentences for holiday homework) Second day he had no problem but it took a battle lasting three hours on first day for him to do the same task on second day in 30 mins, no problems. And thereafter.

P.S. my daughter 10 will quite often call ds2 (ASD) weirdo, say that no-one likes him, he is ruining her life. I think whilst it is painful to hear, and v painful for him to hear, that is how she is feels and it is better she has chance to articulate and change how she feels than pretend she doesn't feel that way. Deep down she loves him dearly and will defend him to all and sundry. He is bound up in all sorts of negative feelings about herself, and us, and not surprisingly she chooses to express it as blame for him.

Take care.

That all sounds like really attention seeking behaviour and comes across as very nasty, but I wonder is she subconciously pushing you away so she can confirm (to herself) that you care more about them than about her?

You need to separate what you can control from what you can't, to minimise the disruption for the other children.

You probably need to go back to basic basics, iyswim. No violence would be my number one rule (and resulted in much time in his bedroom for ds1).

Sit down with dh and make a fairly simple list of what she has to do each day. Stick to that only; let other things go. But the things you decide on need instant consistent consequences - loss of freedom/phone/laptop/attention whatever she minds about.

Positive encouragement is soooooo difficult when they do very little that is positive, but you really have to look for it or the whole thing just continues in a negative spiral.

I do think that sounds much more positive - but do try to back off on the little things, so she at least feels she has some control back, even if she fucks up a bit (like getting wet, for example).

I understand your defensiveness to Lucy's post - being called a shit mother because you are trying to do your best for your child is tough. I was called a control-freak for years by people who didn't realise just what ds was up to.

Shagmund, can you try keeping a note of what she does right as well as what she does wrong, and maybe have a weekly meeting where you start off with "ok, we have had a great week, mostly. You got up without being asked on x days, but we did have a bit of a row on Thursday, so maybe we should talk about that. You completed all your homework on x days, so I'm going to back off on x, y, z subjects, but I notice that on Friday you didn't fill in any homework, so I'm a bit concerned about that"

Along with "I've researched this, this and this as activities you might be interested in - would you like to pick one of them and we'll go and see"

You know - rather than nagging every day, bite your lip and at the end of the week tackle one or two things that need addressing, while praising at least twice that many things that are going well.

I also think it is worth reading swanthing's posts about your ds. I know in this house I have been so fixated on trying to ensure that ds1 (who has AS) is ok that I tend not to notice the many things that ds2 does right. I expect an awful lot of him and dd and I know I can be unfair sometimes in how I expect them to live.

I also meant to say - having been there and finally emerging from the dark tunnel of teenage parenting- I recognise what you are doing and agree.

I think you are doing a fabulous job

Sounds like a step forward.

May I ask who took the decision to change her schools (under the cicrcumstances I think I would have gone for the fresh start approach too). It made me wonder if the first week she was abit apprehensive of going and it was easier to fall into old ways than to take the leap and make the change. It is fab that she has apologised and done this herself.

Regarding her last term, yes I have been there too. It made me feel a mixture of anger, resignation, a failure but with DS I kept a steady stance. I reinforced the his 2 rules and did not back down. I think looking back it started in Year 9 too with DS, escalutated beginning of Year 10 but slowly the change began after Easter in Year 10. I think it dawned on him it is now or never.

Being the parent of a teenager I think is the hardest job ever and I only have 1 child, please do not think your are doing a rubbish job or that you are the only parent going through this - you are not. I also remember thinking I am not a bad person, I know I am not a bad parent but why is this happening. I shared an office with a lady whose DD had a hobby, did her homework everynight and volunteered to have extra tutition. That made me feel even more worse at times. Regarding your post above that none of your friends do not have a children who you feel are like yours - more than likely they have but won't admit it. Who is going to admit to their peer group that their child is a complete monster at home as it is taken as a personal failure.

Take each day as it comes, stick to your rules and most importantly pick your battles.

Wow OP that reply to Lucy was a bit defensive. She made some fair comments. You have got your daughter to agree to what you want, does that mean that everything has changed? She will only be able to work if she wants to do it for herself. You can't make her work, but you can make her want to work.

Great news SF - it sounds like she is willing to take the first step to changing things.

Stop moaning at her and go and get some help.
I don't mean to be mean but it would seem that neither of you are doing particularly well at your jobs, of being a mother or a child. There is no shame in that I don't think any of us get it particularly right but this is going spectacularly wrong. It has taken me years to get over my relationship with my mother and it is only now when I have had children that I had get over myself otherwise my children would have no grandparents and I would have a relationship she would regret. She was incredibly controlling and nothing I did ever felt good enough. In her eyes - we never worked hard enough or fulfilled our potential. My sisters have spent most of their lives resenting her. (My eldest sisters are in their late 50s so that is a very long time).
You have a choice now to work on your relationship with your daughter and put it right and then you can go from there. I would go and find out where you can get some help with your relationship and do it from the point of view that you need help with how to parent and not from the point of view of blaming her. If I was in her shoes I would feel blamed and judged and you would get no where from there.
Being a parent is really hard and their is no manual - you can only do your best and sometimes we need other options. If what you are doing isn't working do something else. The more you try to control the more she will resist. Also, I don't think giving up is an option- you chose to have her.

Great posts swanthing good to be reminded that sometimes it's the way you praise that is as important than just the fact that you do it.

I would say that getting the children to choose one thing they are responsible for is a very good idea. And to add to the list as time goes on, of course.

Also sound brilliant that you are doing something for yourself, v important.

Fwiw, my mother used to spend countless hours telling me that if I didn't tidy my room, no-one would want to marry me , screaming at me how untidy I was. To this day I have remained completely and utterly untidy. So it did me absolutely no good to be told off. However, the things she praised me for, I tended to work harder at She was a very kind good mum, but she did get that one wrong. I realise now that she screamed at me out of fear, for me, and for herself, as she was in fact extremely untidy herself. So sometimes we just project onto our children our own worries about ourself.

Shagmund I was just reading back in this thread and what struck me was the mention of your son with ASD who you feel very proud of.
My dd can be exceptionally rude and pick fights; she has a twin brother with ASD, and we have only slowly come to realise how much attention she lost along the way; how much we supported her brother and how that affected her self-esteem in very subtle ways.
Have you read Sibling Rivalry by the How to Talk So Children Listen team. It is very illuminating on how you can role cast children quite early on without meaning to.
The latter book also explains how sometimes the way you say things makes such a difference to their reactions. How the wrong kind of praise can sometimes seem like a lead weight, or "block" the way.They are crushed by your expectations.
just thought I would mention it, because I think from what you are saying you feel very cross with her for letting herself down - everytime you praise her you are in fact reminding her in so many words...you are good at this, but...that she is letting herself down, and that is the message she is getting, not your belief in her.

I so completely understand how easy it is to just feel fed up with the sheer rudeness/selfishness dd's can sometimes exhibit. Today dd (10) was screaming at me to make her a 50's petticoat, and complaining about this and that as I slaved away (I dunno why I always end up doing these things for her . I insisted she tidy her room before I made it, suddenly I felt completely determined she was going to observe a simple contractual arrangement...I do this for her, she does that for me first...

Today I had a long talk with Dh, not particularily fruitful I may add, where we were discussing how we should just start with "one thing" (in this case kids should be making their own breakfast, not having it prepared for them) that we use to make the children feel proud of themselves, and us feel less their slaves..

So maybe just try "one thing" rather than a whole hour, just one thing she does - could be make you a cup of coffee in the morning, could be take the rubbish out, could be do 10 mins of work at kitchen table. And go from there. And don't expect miracles.

You are unreasonable to set such a fixed amount of time.

She should do the schoolwork set by school as a matter of course, and very thoroughly (and you should check what she has to do and that she has indeed completed it) and the 20 minutes of reading.

But don't set her extra work unless she is behind. Rather, try to find her some kind of extra-curricular activity that is fun but also uses her brain (drama can be good).

Can I make another suggestion.

Try keeping a diary of the interaction you have with her, the good and the bad. Make a note of the days she does get up, the times she does her homework without complaining, the days she is (reasonably) polite.

Because I find when mine are really getting to me, if I keep a diary of both the good and the bad, the good actually outweighs the bad. It's just that I notice the bad behaviour, the irritating things, the odd day they don't get up or argue about ridiculous things.

90% of the time, though, they are great.

She goes to school every day, gets up on time (usually), does her homework, doesn't get into trouble, tells you where she is (most of the time) etc etc. For your own sanity you have to make sure you notice these things, and not just when she doesn't behave.

Shagmund I wonder, do you tell her a lot that you think she's lazy and rude? because if you do that's maybe what she's decided to be.

If I knew my mum thought I had a 'a massive personality flaw' I'm not sure how motivated I'd be to do well.

Your pride in your DS is obvious but I don't get any sense of you being proud of dd just disppointed and angry.

Are you close to her? What's good in your relationship?

Shagmundfreud yes that is a great idea - I took up running with a friend. Those 2 sessions a week were great therapy. She also has teenage boys (5) and is far fitter than me but to trot round with her listening whilst running and then putting the world to rights for 10 minutes at the end saved me.

Also my DS's hobby consisted of grunting, mumbling and sitting in the armchair!