Not going to be Oxbridge material

Schools get this wrong all the time. At 15 the school I was at felt I might struggle to even get into a polytechnique (I know I'm old). I changed schools after GCSE (there you go I am in a narrow band of about 3 school years) got three As at A level accepted on to the most competitive course at the time. Eventually left with two degrees one from one of the Top 6 Unis in the world (2:1). Now I run my own business turning over three quarters of a million a year employing 17 staff.
My parents only told me this prediction 5 years ago as they believed you should take away someones dream and that children only achieve what is expected of them.
Show him my story. The original school are so embrassed they deny I even attended the school! Despite having GCSE certificates with their name on.

He's 11! Have you missed that bit?

Blog presumably if he's this dead set on Oxford or Cambridge he knows which one and which course?

Yes, that seemed an odd ambition to me as well. Surely, it would be one or the other.

"Support him in his aspirations. He's got a plan....trust that he can achieve it. Get him a tutor and work with school."

Just to put the alternative point- support him in his aspirations, but broaden his horizons. Help him see that there are other paths. Don't get him a tutor- he's already in a very academic school. I'm guessing that what he needs is to be encouraged to do other things too. Scouts, sailing club, archery, handbell ringing..........whatever.

Blog presumably if he's this dead set on Oxford or Cambridge he knows which one and which course?

And congratulations on your academic and ambitious boy. My best friends son is currently being assessed for Aspergers and he's also bright...posts like yours are very encouraging. I will be telling my friend all about your DS.

Support him in his aspirations. He's got a plan....trust that he can achieve it. Get him a tutor and work with school.

"The fact you have gone to Oxbridge could disadvantage him too"

No it won't. What it might do is not "advantage" him in the way it undoubtedly once would have done.

The fact you have gone to Oxbridge could disadvantage him too!! My DC's tick every other box re disadvantage as things stand now BUT not the one where no parents have been to uni. !! is very young too & no matter how much "social engineering" goes on, I am sure your child stands as much chance as he ever did of going to Oxbridge!

There can be very few teachers in good secondary schools who would take the results of MIDYS type tests over and above their own observations of a student's work. I think, (just from experience) that the trajectory/cognitive bias thing is more likely to be seen at primary level.

All school which send students to higher education have, every year, seen examples of students getting into good universities where they were not necessarily expected to (and sometimes where the teachers know they were very lucky indeed - by A Level, teachers have a good idea of the intellectual capacity of their students).

The more students they have who are performing well, the more often they will see this. Few know better than Sixth Form teachers what a lottery admissions can be. The opposite also happens with strong candidates who do not get expected offers.

Teachers are not there to limit children's horizons. I don't believe the attitude you fear will come about if your son develops intellectually. They will probably try to wean him off the idea that Oxbridge is the only place for him for his own sake but the idea that they will prevent him applying if he is within the ball park is odd and (in a good school) mistaken.

yellowtip I was being simplistic, but being the child of a single parent can be a mitigating circumstance, especially if it has also meant that there has been poverty, emotional trauma, ill health, abuse, caring responsibilities etc. There is however a world of difference between that and parents having had a divorce where the children have been protected from trauma, as you would hope would happen with a "run of the mill" divorce (that is probably for another thread!!) or where a single parent has provided a stable and supportive family home.

The main point is that the subsequent performance of the students who are being recruited as a result of all the initiatives to reach into deprived communities and schools that have a poor record of sending children to universities suggest that we are still far from having leveled the playing field to the extent that children from selective schools are being disadvantaged.

Blog I think you have a point re: early tests to assess ability. Yes, they are there as a safeguard to spot anomalies between potential & performance but I think cognitive bias can be a consequence. I believe they can be limiting in some situations - there is an expected academic trajectory from KS1.

If I as a teacher have access to data that predicts the 'raw intellect' of my pupils this is likely to influence how bright I think they are on one level which could subconsciously influence how I teach them - perhaps giving the known v bright the benefit of the doubt. There has been a lot of research into this sort of thing. Ultimately I have data which tells me who has the most potential - although I might know it's not foolproof it's likely to influence me on some level.

By GCSE it's true some children are marked out for Oxbridge - I know one school well where they hold Oxbridge prep classes where advice is given on course & even expert advice on best college.

Having said all of that your son is in a very fortunate position - he's got into a highly selective school, they know he's academic. You also seem to be clued up. Try to get him to focus a bit more widely & explore other options & universities etc. It's such early days.

Hey joan thanks for reminding! :) You are so right. I forgot that in explaining how to sharpen one's elbows that something really good was happening underneath this all.. I feel a bit teary and humbled actually... [sort of sobered and humbled al together emoticon]

I think you should give yourself a massive pat on the back. Your son is really happy attending a great school where they value academic success and achievement, which suits him, and where many children go on to good universities. I hope I will be able to say the same when ds is 11.

oh also take him to oxford and cambridge a lot and don't pressure, make another excuse like 'seeing' somewhere beyond them geographically, then popping in to 'get lunch' - entitlement and familiarity is ESSENTIAL on the interview days.

I bet year 9 mum is a buuuuulll shitter! playing the game!

Sorry! I didn't read the 'idiosyncratic personality' bit. Is he sciences or art? If sciences idiosyncracies are what research layer needs. UG needs drones, PG needs creative thinkers and 'envelope pushers' [urgh at terminology!] so if he is like this, train him to say 'I think I will really flourish at the research level because I like thinking in a different way within and around my current knowledge to see if I can come at things from a new angle' hehe [evil game-playing emoticon]

In ds1's comprehensive they have started streaming them into an Oxbridge orientated group in Year 9. Not that the rest of us know about this, or I suspect there would be an uproar. I just heard it from a mum

Still I was a bit narked that expectations and effort are focused so early Don't think my yr 8 will end up in that group!

I think it is perfectly ridiculous that you are letting ds worry about that now. I think the other thing to remember is that children only know what you tell them/model to them, so the more stories you tell them of people who went to other unis, the more balanced their view of the future. My son at the moment thinks that after High School you get a job, because so many of his friends' parents did that, it has taken a lot of gentle elaboration to show there are many options, university being one of them, but a job is not the only option when you are 18/19!

Who gives a F*? 1. Of course he's not Oxbridge material.. he is 11.

1. He can get to be oxbridge material by 18 fairly easily by working harder and thinking more creatively/questioningly than the arrogant public school tossers who think being plummy gets you in.
2. And he can get just as good (arts) or better (sciences) education elsewhere
3. And (especially sciences) can easily go to oxbridge at PG level.

Also consider:
a. The people 'assessed' as 'Oxbridge material' are normally the children of people who have said to the teacher'my child is Oxbridge material.
b. Being outside 'oxbridge material' in a school that feeds Oxbridge usually means that his grades will be oxbridge level grades anyway, but just that he will feel that he is not oxbridge because of the BS.
c, the 'oxbridge types' at his school always run the danger of being interview robots, coached, disciplined and rehearsed. make him focused, questioning, prepared to admit and explore his own mistakes and/or misunderstandings and why and teach him to explain concepts in pictures, allegories and stories.
d. get him used to reading books as a passion and as a habit (eg five pages each day for a complicated text book). This 'skill' is loved at Oxbridge as they expect high reading levels (you might remember and understand 5% but that's more than the privileged plummers who don't bother their arse and get kicked out in year one.
e. if its sciences particularly but also economics, philosophy, genetics (oh yeah that's science!) history etc.. get him some year one texts second hand and especially 'very short guides to' right now. they will lay behind him some landscapes to put future learning into (just like if you walk a cross country track before you run it, you run it much quicker than running with doubt in your mind).
f. Teach him the 'read stuff that's way beyond your knowledge, then within reach of your knowledge, then way beyond, then within. You might never understand the stuff that is beyond, but again its like seeing the top of the cliff before you climb up to it - its the psychology that's important.
g. do 'career consequences' if he is clear of his oxbridge goals. write 'me at oxbridge!' at the top of a piece of paper, fold it over and write down what 'me at oxbridge' needs to do before getting to oxbridge (get grades), then 'apply' perhaps (leave it up to him.. it could be 'pack my bags' or 'learn to sing in choir' or anything!).. right up until ' go into year 12 ready'
h.. er that's it!

Not had time to read other responses so sorry if already said, but jut wanted to say that a school can't 'put people forward' for Oxbridge. In my very academic school it was never ever suggested I apply for Oxbridge - there were a chunk of more obvious candidates. I never thought about it either. Then at the very very last minute (the week before the application deadline) I decided to give one of those unis a punt. I was strongly advised against by the teacher of my weakest subject (maths). However, I did the application anyway. Long story short...I got in, and three years later graduated with a first class degree.

FWIW I also had a bunch of friends who also weren't ever 'considered' Oxbridge material and didn't apply. When they got a raft of As at A-Level, a couple of them were very bitter that they'd not been encouraged to consider Oxbridge. This is one of the problems with v academic schools in my opinion - they can in fact lower the aspirations of some incredibly bright people who just don't happen to be the cream of that particular crop.

So, ignore what the school says. Take close attention to what you and your son think over the next few years, and manage his expectations appropriately as you move forward - clearly he may not be sufficiently academic, but that may not be clear until much much later. If at all! If you think he has the remotest chance of getting in and - importantly - could cope with rejection if it happened, then I'd encourage an application regardless of the school's opinion.

11 is too early to know. Particularly since he is a boy and has asd. He may leap past his peers as late as 16yo. Or he may not, best to teach him about lots of options.

You don't have to follow the school's advice on where to apply. If he wants to apply for Oxbridge, he can. But given his nature, the way you describe it, it would be good to look at other options. I too have a rather fixated 10 year old who decided 2 years ago which uni he wants to go to. How he found out about it is beyond me, it's not even in the UK, but he announced where he is headed and won't budge, so I sympathise.

It may help to go into greater detail about what he wants to study there and then look closely at some other courses and tutors too. If he reads a great book for example, by an academic who teaches elsewhere, just mention it in passing. let him see that there are plenty of opportunities and try and show it can be win win. If he gets into an Oxbridge college, that's fine. If not other choices are also wise.

Surely the school will want as many pupils as possible to do as we'll as possible and will work with you to ensure the best possible outcome for your child. If not, what are you paying for?