Decadence in London fee paying secondary schools

Gawd I don't know. I only know about our school

I doubt that applies in London, brycie!

Yes ours are on the bus because it's free. Edith, the key then must be to choose your school. Any decent private secondary will take children who are bright but can't afford the fees, to keep the results up.

Although, I did read about more and more schools lowering their requirements just to keep the fees rolling in so things might be changing.

I went to a London private school ... ooh, 25 years ago and there was a fair amount of decadence in the sixth form at least - drinking, drugs, sex etc.

But my friends who went to comps in the middle of nowhere seem to have had not dissimilar experiences.

I think a lot depends on the child's personality, I was (and am) rebellious by nature and was drawn to "wilder" activities. However, the wilder bunch were a smallish crowd and many of my peers were eminently sensible in comparison.

all survived and done well and turned into boring grounded adults. DD1 is at a private prep school and I think so long as I hammer messages home about drugs/drink etc, I think she will be fine.

I am more concerned about the "bling side of things, that my dd (who was previously at a state primary) is now seeing everyone's parents driving 4x4s and holidaying in the Maldives. But a lot of other parents share those concerns too, so you have to hope the message that our children are extremely privileged will prevail. There were plenty of rich kids at my old school but they weren't necessarily the "cool" ones, other qualities were valued much more. I suspect it's the same today.

My DCs go to an independent in S London/Kent borders which sounds similar to Brycie's. There are incredibly well off families, a few minor/ex-celebrities and a lot of "normal" people who work really hard to send their kids there, drive normal cars or even god forbid get the bus to school. The school works hard to keep the children grounded.

Not all private schools are charities. And the latest tribunal rulings on charitable status mean there is no absolute requirement on those that are to provide any particular level of bursary.

I didn't know that about preps. Is there something about secondaries having to give a certain number of bursaries to keep charity status? Ignorant on that.

There are fewer bursaries at prep level than at secondary. Also, the giving of a bursary is in confidence, so if the parents choose not to make it public then you wouldn't know. Just as you don't necessarily know whose fees are paid by employer, GPs or inheritance.

I can imagine in prep schools you wouldn't see the less well off. A lot of less well off will think they can make up the difference at primary age themselves, by tutoring, but at secondary if there isn't a decent school nearby an enthusiastic parent simply can't make up the difference.

I get the impression that this has worsened too. My now very privileged and elite private school was actually a bit mixed. Not very but a bit.

I came from a single parent family and mum was a nurse so I had a bursary. My BF's dad was a builder but she was an only child so they managed to scrape by. My other friend's parents were both teachers. We all lived in very modest homes in distant suburbs. I don't know that you find many families like that routinely in these schools now. I was the only one to have a bursary so I can only conclude that fees have gone up since those days and are now out of reach. Plus I think a lot of ordinary families have been priced out of London anyway because of house prices...

Yes, that's London. Bursary and scholarship children and many parents like us who scrape by, I mean, never mind dreaming of conservatories, I dream of a decent haircut!

Is that in London Brycie? because I haven't seen any less well-off people in any of the Prep or independent schools I've come across. I am a solicitor and so is my husband, and we can't afford to send our children to fee paying schools (grandparents pay in our case for ds1) - i haven't come across a generous bursary. In the private schools of N London and the school my ds1 now goes to, there isn't a mix at all.

I suppose we do have celebrities and the children of some of the most phenomenally rich people in Britain but they don't inform the culture of the school, that's dictated by the school. It's fair, compassionate, pastoral, holistic and rounded.

Not at ours, there's a culture of crappy old cars, crappy holidays in wet French caravan parks, dreams of conservatories and basically sacrifice for the children's future.

I think this is a legitimate worry. A friend of mine is moving her kids out of a top London prep because of the way that his fellow pupils spoke to their Phillipina maids and how they all had their own i-pads. Materialism isn't restricted to private schools, but in some there can be a toxic mix of parental wealth and lack of involvement.
Every private school I know of in London has famous parents and so the celebrity culture is a reality rather than an abstract. Which may not necessarily be a bad thing, but you have to guard against your child thinking any of it is normal.

Don't forget that many fee paying schools offer generous bursaries and/or scholarships so not everyone need be rolling in money. I agree with what others have said - every school is different. You need to spend time in them and get a feel for the place and people. See what proportion of students come from state schools rather than preps. Those that have tough entrance exams will have kids wanting to learn rather than swanning around like models and the like.

Think you've got it there, Squirrel about getting a social mix in the school. Most areas of London the affluent really rub shoulders with the poor. It's essential that the children keep a sense of proportion and a sense of how society works.

my son is at a central london independent school. There is a lot of wealth there, and he was impressed by it originally. But he is sensible enough to know that that isn't the norm, and some of the excesses are, well excessive.

He did start saying at one stage that we are poor (which we are compared to those people), but he realises that we are very lucky really. I think by that age, they have the maturity to cope with the excesses.

My daughter is at a N London state school, and there are very wealthy people there too. The only difference there is that there are very poor people as well. I think living in London, children see wealth at both ends of the spectrum, and that's what worries me about the independent schools. Not the excessively wealthy people, but the fact that there isn't a mix, and the children are often living in a bit of a bubble, where they think its the norm to have a bedroom to yourself, live in a house rather than a flat, holiday abroad several times a year and have a second home in Suffolk.

One swallow doesn't make a summer but a dd of a good friend of mine went to a fee-paying girls school in London and met a son of a rock star at a party. I think there are social cliques where teenagers of similar backgrounds hang out, though my friend certainly falls in the lawyers, doctors brigade and not Chelsea.

For a couple of years my friend used to regale me with the antics of her dd. Her boyfriend - dad is rock star, godmother a supermodel, the boy himself a teen model for Gaultier and the like - used to taker her to parties where Kate Moss was a fellow reveller. All this when she was under 18. Looking back my friend was star struck, but equally couldn't do much to control her dd other than stay up late and text continually.

This girl is now at a provincial Russell group uni and has settled down. She came out ok but certainly wouldn't want my dd's to do what she did.

I think its not just the school, but the social groups that hang off these schools. It also helped that my friend's dd was VERY pretty.

I know exactly what you are getting at Quint. I went to a fee paying school in London for a short time and it was actually quite serious but I know some are not. Some seem to be breeding grounds for spoilt kids getting eating disorders and wanting to be cool. I think this is about day schools too - not boarding schools (not that I would send my child to boarding school but I think they are more regimented so less scope for hanging out outside the local club trying to be cool). I don't have an answer but I know what you are getting at.

We moved DSS1 and DSS2 from the state school in Neuilly-sur-Seine to a private Catholic school in the 7ème. We definitely gained on the decadence front - the current school is better academically, has richer families but is a hell of a lot less decadent than the state school.

QS - I understand your concerns and think they are legitimate ones. Bonsoir's opinion I share.

Whatever school choose, state or private, one of the biggest influences on your DC will be their peer group and it is something you can do nothing whatsoever about (there may be drug users, for example, in any school; and what you currently expect him to find alluring may change)

So it does come down to what grounding he has, how you continue to parent through the teen years, and what pastoral care there is in the school.

Remember one persons "decadent" school is another persons" informal",it depends on the school,the more selective the less likely you are to encounter these people but they will be at every school to some extent,you just need to have faith in your grounding and stay away from Bedales

Different schools attract different sorts of families (different segments of society). You need to look beyond exam results and league tables.