Secondary schools for twice exceptional?

IQ and intellectual/academic ability aren't entirely the same thing though, are they?

This is a thread from 2012.. this child will be doing their A levels or GCSE's somewhere

Private, grammar or state?

So dull and frustrating that we cannot say things like they are. We could if the child was a gifted in sports however. What did you do in the end? Did you ever find support? I’m not sure it really exists but am yet to start upper school so will find out! We paid for a private school because they promised to provide this but they didn’t deliver in either side and my child didn’t progress with the academic side or the SEN side so am not hopeful for the future.

Skippy, that was exactly the type of answer that I got - which was useful input into my decision making. I didn'yt say that the answer I got was unsatisfactory, just that those were the questions I was asking BECAUSE I have an extremely able child with an SEN and was trying to find out how well he might succeed there. I was asking the 'obvious' question about an apparent mismatch.

Relatively rare ethnic group - 0.15% of the total UK population, with a strong and unique culture. Coupled with the number and level of SENs, definitely an exceptional child.

"Talk to me about how support for SEN children is organised, and about why, given that you are selective, your academic results are lower than the local comprehensive"

Y'know, a lot of 'selective' senior schools are not. They might test, but that doesn't mean they don't then admit some children that are not terribly bright.

There are quite a lot of children in the private sector who are not academically able, and likewise there are plenty of schools that specialize in educating them.

They might offer a 10% scholarship or something to the children doing well on the entrance exam, and the entrance exam is a sort of carrot for those children who are capable, to persuade them that the school is in fact an academic hothouse (of course it's not, but some parents want to think that); the parents might have selected the school on other factors, being 'nice', etc., but they will all request the kids sit an entrance exam.

There are so many different degrees of selection ('top 5%', 'top 50%', that the intake at a given private school may be less able than the state comprehensive (which, if successful, will effectively select a large proportion of its intake on the basis of parents being pushy enough to buy/rent a house in the tiny catchment area).

If nothing else, the exam would help in setting children in the first year.

(Not sure what a 'rare ethnic group' is btw.)

I have found the 2E term very helpful. How can a gifted child achieve a Yr 6 Level 3 in writing? How can a dyslexic child achieve a Level 5 in Reading? What does it mean to have one score on the 6th percentile and another on the 99th?

Thanks for the clarification. I wouldn't regard it as precious, either - just not specific enough to be useful in a school context, though I understand the google issue.

Not a particular range - any disability alongside giftedness (not usually used for musical/ gymnastics etc, but straightforward academics as far as I am aware). Usually in a context where accommodations have to be made for both circumstances (ie differentiations for working well ahead of peer group in academic context, but also requiring additional support for a learning disability or other issue that complicates learning in context). So any child that requires (for example in a UK context) a statement or IEP for a disability, as well as a separate IEP for extension/ gifted stuff.

I have two that fall under the 2e umbrella, and one that is just gifted. Dd2 has cerebral palsy, and ds1 has ADHD with aspergers traits, anxieties and phobias. Dd1 is nt. it is more commonly used alongside asd, but I think that's purely related to incidence. Dd2 doesn't have asd, but she is 2e.

'Twice exceptional' is useful shorthand for me, as to spew out 'one gifted child with cerebral palsy, one gifted child with ADHD, aspergers stuff, anxieties and phobias' each time is a pita, and my google results get weird. Easier to say 'two 2e'. if I am discussing an individual kid with an individual school, I wouldn't use the term at all. I'd start off with 'quite bright' and then eventually hand over all the reports.

I've not seen it used in a musical/ gymnastics context as that stuff is ordinarily dealt with at specialist institutions in any case - ie out of school. Schools ime just refer to local gym club/ music college etc, they aren't specialist enough to cater for those aspects of giftedness. Bog standard academics shouldn't be beyond the wit of any teacher. Nor should disability. But somehow schools struggle with either issue - both can be even more problematic.

(It was skippy that called the term precious - I wasn't beefing about anything else! it gets old on here when G&T gets bashed. It isn't precious at all. It's just a useful descriptor. But it's all contextual)

Ah, just discovered that my 4 SEN child is also 2e, in that he comes from a rare ethnic group. Does that count??

My son is 2E. I don't have a problem with it as it explains quite accurately what he is. Perhaps exceptional is intended to mean rare and deviating from the norm rather than something precious.

Exceptional:

1. forming an exception : rare

I don't regard it as 'precious' - just not particularly helpful because it matters so much what the giftedness is in and what the nature of the SEN is. It would be a little like describing a child in my class as being '4 SEN' - it isn't useful to simply the number of needs he has, it is much more helpful to spell them out e.g. cognitive impairment, visual impairment, physical disability, specific speech difficulties....

Or is 'twice exceptional' usually used for 'straightforward' academic giftedness (as in a giftedness in one or more mainsteam academic subjects) + a particular range of SENs? As opposed to e.g. musical giftedness + visual impairment, say?

Yy, but the text of the op explains what it means. As a term if it is unusual, then the more people who hear about it the better? All of the existing literature about kids with dual exceptionalities uses the term - or recognizes it anyway, so parents whose children fall into this category do need to have heard the term and be able to use it if they wish to access the books etc. professionals working with gifted kids who have other issues use it all the time (if they are working with them in that capacity, ie specialists rather than generalists)

I'm not moaning about folk having not heard it - we all start out that way. I just don't like terminology being referred to as 'precious' when it is an accepted descriptor in common usage in this particular arena.

Madwoman,

I suppose that the problem is that many of us who do HAVE twice exceptional children (by the definition posted) won't use it as a signpost because we don't know the term ... surely better to post 'school for highly academic child with ASD', as a school which deals well with e.g. a child who is gifted but partially sighted, or gifted but with CP, or gifted but deaf, or gifted in music / sport but with ADHD, might or might not be the same as one which might deal well with the OP's specific child...

Sure, but if you are googling, 'twice exceptional' is a good shorthand for 'asd and gifted' ' ADHD and gifted' ' cerebral palsy and gifted' etc etc. and many organizations use the term. It's run of the mill in the US and coming your way. I don't use it when I call a school, but it doesn't mean I criticize people for using it on an Internet talk board, where it's shorthand. Ignorance is no excuse. For parents who have kids who are twice exceptional, and not heard the term before, it might be a useful help for getting info. Whether you use the term in your daily life or not. I don't anyone that rings up and says 'my son is gifted'. We all use euphemisms that mean people don't shout 'pushy show off' in the street.

Are we really talking numbers? Any minute now we're now going to descend into the realms of EG, PG, etc. Posting iqs. The op used it as a signpost for other parents of 2e kids.

I have a son who is G&T (both for an academic subject and for sport) and is on the autistic spectrum.

Like Skippy, the exact approach I take with a given school depends on its strengths and its possible weaknesses.

Question to the grammar school might be: 'Talk to me about your experience of ASD - and the balance between sport and academic work'

Question to the comprehensive (well known for good SEN support): 'Talk to me about how you stretch very able children and the opportunities for high-level competitive sport'

Question for the private school: 'Talk to me about how support for SEN children is organised, and about why, given that you are selective, your academic results are lower than the local comprehensive'.

(As it happens, he's now at the comprehensive, doing well so far)

All children are different. Some children may be different enough to have 'labels' of different kinds attached to them. It is never (IMHO) sensible to describe those children only in terms of the number their labels as in 'twice exceptional'. Considering their ACTUAL strengths and difficulties, individually and by name, is much more likely to arrive at a good fit between child and school.

ps what does twice exceptional mean?

St Christopher's in Letchworth are excellent.

93% of us have to settle for the local state school
and cannot move because the housing market is stuffed
and IQ tests are a poor predictor of academic success

Aha, I hadn't heard the term before (I have had a child simultaneously classed as G and T and SEN, although not exceptional in any way I would say!). I certainly did not mean to sound critical of your use of it. I still think you might get more specific replies if you use a title everyone understands, if you are hoping to look at a range of schools - ie you want somewhere that supports every child, great pastoral care, a little niche for everyone etc etc - rather than a school that specifically caters for children like your son.

I am sure you are right about the commute for him - what about the commute for you to work/ Does that pin it down at all? If you have to find an area, and move house, I would say year 4 is about the right time to start thinking as in London anyway, you'll need to have an address by October of year 6.

My son has been measured beyond the 99.7 th percentile, and has an ASD, but that doesn't change the fact that it sounds precious.

In terms of education, this child needs somewhere for the more academically able (which is what most schools want), BUT he also has special needs which need care.

You don't ring up St Paul's School and say 'my son is twice exceptional'. You identify that that is a school which takes the most academically able children, and you call them to ask 'what support can you give to children with an ASD'.

Big difference.

In terms of that school there is just one thing that is exceptional - and that is the ASD.

I'm not going to tell anyone the sun shines out of my children's backsides, I would just describe the difficulties and needs rather than saying that he's 'TWICE exceptional', as if he is the world's greatest prize that they must clamour to admit to their school. Nope, I will find out if they are understanding of, and can accommodate his needs and if they are then that's what matters.

No shame in saying 'my son has an ASD and is very academic' at all, and everyone is exceptional frankly, I don't want some sort of euphemism for a 'special' label (with the inverted commas delivered dripping in malice).

Skippy, it's absolutely in common use for kids who are dual or multiple exceptionality (gifted plus any sen). Just shorthand that will lead you directly to nagc, to hoagies, to any of the support groups worldwide that offer advice to families with kids who have a disability and are recognized gifted. Just because you haven't heard it, doesn't it make it precious. That smacks of the usual mn crap towards parents of gifted kids, and I'm a bit sickened that it's now being extended towards those who have disabilities and are gifted to boot. Shame, shame.

If your asd child is also gifted, you might find the term 'twice exceptional' quite handy to find an additional route for support.

'Precious' my arse. (Tbh)

I guess you need to start looking at schools and find out about their SEN provision. At the grammar schools (Kent, Slough, Reading all have them if you are looking at London/SE) it seems that SEN mostly means ASD from what I hear.

I have not heard the phrase "twice exceptional" before (having an ASD child). It comes across as a little precious tbh.

If he is truly exceptional you might be able to get a scholarship and/or bursary from a private school. Target the more famous ones (Eton, Winchester, etc.), they have more cash.