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Original poster

Are more schools going over to Pre-U?

31 replies

Hamishbear · 30/09/2012 07:21

A school I am looking at has recently abolished A'levels and gone over to Pre-U.

The school says it is making this move because of the general dissatisfaction with the A and AS level system, the reported grade inflation and that courses have had the content reduced and are not challenging enough.

It apparently has an independent research and global perspectives element.

The school says that they believe the IB is too prescriptive and restrictive? They say if you have an gift in a certain area you might want to specialise and the IB does not allow you to do that. For example maths must be studied with the IB if you are wishing to specialise and study a language. Also budding scientists can't just study Physics, Chemistry and Biology alone with the IB .

So with the Pre-U, as I understand it, you study three main subjects then have the global perspective element and independent research report?

With Pre-U you can also get the diploma if you study French and Spanish A level but Pre-U English it seems - as long as you do the independent research report and global perspectives part.

I think, with Pre-U, you take an exam at the end of 2 years but he global perspective part and independent research part are examined at the end of the lower sixth. The global perspective part sounds interesting, lots of different themes to explore and the idea being you focus on a key challenge that you will perhaps face in adult life: China as an emerging superpower, medical ethics etc. Has to connect to a theme either: ethics, economics, environment, technology and politics. You take an exam, submit a piece of work and do a presentation.

With the independent research project you do a report of between 4,500 and 5,000 words at the end of the lower sixth.

Apparently UK Universities are very keen on the Pre-U - including Russell Group & Oxbridge. American Universities also view it positively.

The school says that the Pre-U is designed to be accessible to the same range of ability as A levels. A D2 (Distinction 2) is equivalent to A at A level (with Pre-U there is a grade above A - D1). A at A level is equivalent to D3.

Cambridge apparently have said they ask for 1 x D2 and 2 x D3 and Oxford either 1xD2 and 2x D3 or 3 x D3.

Cambridge seem very keen on Pre-U and I have to say I like the idea of the global perspectives element very much.

So is the Pre-U more popular than the IB? What are the pitfalls?

Thanks.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hamishbear · 30/09/2012 12:49

Why is it harder to get an A/A* in Pre-U? In the example you give about Kings College - that's the equivalent of A,A, and C (?) at A level?

Are A levels 'easier' because you are continually assessed rather than having to take an exam at the end of 2 years on which everything depends?

It sounds to me as if Pre-U is like the A levels I took years ago minus any project or independent research at end of lower sixth?

With IB I believe the project/service element is still assessed in the second year which must less time to concentrate on core subjects in some way?

If you are on course for As at A level, have great teaching, perform well in exams, have your sights set on Oxbridge, Russell Group or Ivy League and are a specialist rather than an all rounder couldn't you really differentiate yourself by opting for Pre-U?

OP posts:
happygardening · 30/09/2012 12:36

I?ve just picked a random RG university Kings College London and random course biochemistry (not for me) and it states on their entry requirements the following: "Cambridge Pre-U 3 Pre-U Principal Subjects with grades of D3 D3 M2"

happygardening · 30/09/2012 12:31

it is still quite a rare qualification so it doesn't seem that poplar.
I suspect that is because it?s harder to get an A/A* in! My DN sat I think either maths or further maths at pre U and went onto Oxford and at my DS's school between 33- 37% go onto Oxbridge, the rest to the Ivy League and RG universities so they are not finding a problem with it.
According to the UCAS website the Pre U D2 (equivalent to the A) carries 145 points, the A = 140, the D3 130, the equivalent A = 120 and M1 which is equivalent to a B at A level carries 115 points whilst a B =100.

Original poster
Hamishbear · 30/09/2012 12:15

Creamteas - sorry to be incredibly dense but please can you explain what you mean? - This stage some way off for me so am a bit lost by 'quotas' etc.

www.cie.org.uk/cambridgepreu may be useful for some.

'Cambridge university has 'developed Cambridge Pre-U as a coherent curriculum underpinned by a core set of educational principles. It offers genuinely interesting syllabuses which learners can study in any combination to gain the Cambridge Pre U Diploma.'

I think I would have done reasonably well under this system - was hard working and more of a specialist plus I like the research element and presentation aspect on a subject you are passionate about with quite a free choice. IB sounds more difficult to me. I also like the idea of the exams being at the end of a two year period.

It strikes me that teaching is key - some schools that offer it have had a hand in developing the syllabus and I would imagine teachers must so be absolutely passionate about it and fully onboard.

I've heard you have to be extraordinarily bright to do well with Pre-U but it seems that the top universities don't ask for the top grade - D1? I would have thought it was harder for students to distinguish themselves with IB - particularly the specialists?

OP posts:
creamteas · 30/09/2012 11:36

At my uni, it is still quite a rare qualification so it doesn't seem that poplar.

One important point is that you should check what the equivalence ranking for uni entry is in relation to the quota AAB+/ABB+ (core/margin) places. There is a very narrow range of qualifications which made it onto the list, certainly a lot fewer than attract UCAS points.

If it is not on the list, then a top mark would not put you in the off quota section of university entry and thus make it more competitive to get in, especially at very good universities that lost most of their student quota places.

happygardening · 30/09/2012 09:00

Well OP you seem to know more about the Pre U than I do and my DS's school is one of the few to only offer it! All I know is that most consider it more interesting than A levels, more challenging for the able, that its difficult to do 4 and get a D2 or above and that the curriculum is more joined up. I believe in many other schools its only offered to the most able the rest sit the conventional A level and the equivalent to an A at A in fact all the equivalent grades carry more UCAS points. I believe you sit an exam at the end of two years just like you did when I was at school many years ago so I suppose you could have a mental block on the day and muck it up!
When it first came about 5 years ago many super selective St Pauls Eton etc who all claimed they had been involved with its formation seemed to be saying they were going to change completely over to it but I only know of one that has (not saying there aren't others) although some offer it in a limited number of subject.
I will read other responses with interest.