State grammar schools compared with independent schools

Bu most of the top performing independent schools are also very over subscribed I believe St Pauls has 9 applicants for every one place and a ridiculously early registration date, Eton 6 for every one (read the numerous posting on MN about the difficulties of actually getting a offered a place) Harrow 8 for every one (ditto MN advise) so its not just grammar schools that are over subscribed.

ha! The grammars also have huge numbers of applications per place, but it's much harder to predict whether you would get in because it comes down to who scored 1% more within the hundreds who pass..

Skippy - abandon the GSG, which is frequently out of date and innaccurate, and have a look at the Dept of Education website which gives lots of details about each school - and then look at the ofsteds. And ask around for schools that would suit your child.

Maybe start a thread which says 'nurturing school to suit bright but vulnerable child - recommendations in any sector in the SE please!' and take the discussion away from the grammar / independent theme.

OP Im going to answer your original question?
What are the most significant differences between a grammar school and an independent?
My DS was offered a place at a top performing independent and one of the countries top performing grammars always in the top 10 usually the top five although the results of the former are better. There were lots of factors we had to take into consideration before making our choice and we were heavily influenced by the fact that the grammar school was 40+ miles up the road and that was after I had driven 10 miles to meet the school bus. But on the other hand it was a free education. Like your DS my DS was at a prep school he although not exactly the most streetwise in a lot of ways is exceedingly independent and I wasn't worried about his ability to mix with children from all backgrounds and certainly don't believe bullying is more prevalent in the sate sector. I didn't like the atmosphere at the grammar IMO the staff were smug as they knew that they were a top performing school and they sort gave me the impression they were doing me a favour taking my DS, they made me feel uncomfortable. The facilities at the independent are obviously better as are the range and type of opportunities and most importantly I like the staff they talk to me as if Im an equal in a language I understand not some jargon filled load of gobbledegook. I felt the grammar was obsessed about its league table position/results as were the other parents and that it was basically an exam factory but the independent although these things are important the education was significantly broader and there were many many more cultural and most importantly for us intellectual activities that were not exam related on offer. In short the independent school provided a proper all round education. I accept that Im not comparing like with like as the independent is full boarding but we had looked at and had experience of top performing independent day schools and they provided a more balanced education as well.

OP children from prep schools often do appear to have lead a very sheltered life but once at senior school they quickly adapt so I wouldn't be too precious concerned if I was you just find a school that you both like and if your positive your DS will be also.

OMG there are school with 300 in a school year!!!

How could I not know this? after reading MNeducation threads for years

I thought 150 was big!

What is average?

How are those numbers remotely managable?

Great post, Blu :)

If your need is for a small, sheltered, nurturing environment then grammar is not going to compare with private. Grammar will be full of bright and very competitive children - Heaven help the child that comes in the bottom quartile at all subjects....(which should be a lesson for those parents that tutor borderline pupils to within an inch of their lives).

Bullying happens in any school. I think the bullying done by naice children can be even more damaging than that done by those that you term streetwise. Private kids are just better at keeping it under the radar because they will be expelled if they are overt in their cruelty. I imagine that's one of the reasons why there are often lots of eating disorders and the like in private. Take a look at Question Time in the commons and ask yourself where they all learnt to be so withering....

You have probably missed the boat anyway for 11+ tests, so might want to look at state boarding options instead - Cranbrook is indeed a fab school, though very competitive to get into.

Or, if your child is happy, simply leave it as is.

I understand that every parent wants to find a school that is as agood a fit as possible for their child, and in that, I wish you luck.

But sorry, this is exactly the sort of state / private thread that makes my blood boil.

My DS has just turned 11. He is tiny for his age, he walks with a limp, and he has just started a S London state comp. He is indeed quite streetwise . He is also kind and caring. He helped a boy whose name he did not yet know to re-tie his tie so he would not get a yellow card. He is kind to the girl who is too scared to speak to anyone. And he has also been rescued by another girl - of a demography frequently cited as a factor to worry about - who slipped him her spare reading book when he found that he did not have a reading book in his bag when they were instructed to pull out their reading books. This is a Lambeth state comp. They are not wolves.

I do feel for you, wanting to find a school which will support a child with ASD. You might do best by looking at individual schools for what they are and not for what sector they fall into. State comps often have excellent inclusion departments precisely because they cater for all comers. For example the inclusion dept called me unexpectedly after DS's first day to check that he was happy and felt safe and secure re his leg, and to let him and me know who to talk to if we had the slightest worry. They have put systems in place to ensure he can enjoy school on the same terms as everyone else. Look for a school that has a good record for inclusive practice, has specialist SEN teachers. A school with a good pastoral care structure and a committment to that. A school that will support all students to achieve to the best of their own academic potential - whether that be high or average, across a range of subjects.

Sorry you unwittingly walked into a tinderbox.

skippy, mine was meant to be gentle teasing, not snide

There's no substitute for going to have a look at some schools both state and independent . Why not take him to some of he open days . See which ones you feel he'll flourish in. Good luck.

I think he would be better off in a lovely soft cocoon of cotton wool with a nice book to read and a biscuit, perhaps in your shed, lovingly redesigned to provide the perfect sensory school environment.

What makes you think your child will be picked on at a state school? As far as I am aware private schools do not have a secret charm that prevents bullying.
Grammar schools are full of bright, well organised and focused pupils as well as a few quirky ones. Most seem to do well.

"However, my son is vulnerable and doesn't react well to being picked on (has ASD and is not good at understanding how others might respond to his reaction to this). He is still a little boy and I am quite aware of how it could go very badly wrong for him. I am not going to throw him to any wolves."

I'm not quite sure what you are asking? Are you asking whether a state grammar school will provide the same atmosphere as a small, non pressured independent? If so, the answer is obviously "No".

OP I think you have a strange perception of state schools. You say you think it's sheltered because the children never go anywhere alone.Do you think state primaries do?

I wouldn't like a child of mine to be in such a sheltered enviroment. tThe outside world is going to be a bit of a shock to the system.

"His current school is very sheltered. One of his friends is absurdly square. DS: 'Come on let's go the playground'. Friend: 'Er, is your dad coming?'. Get to the playground, frisbee goes in the bushes 'Can you get it, I don't want to get scratched'. None of them are allowed to go anywhere on their own, etc."

And this is a good thing?

Exactly what seeker says.Kids are kids and bullying takes place in any and every school.It's how it's dealt with that is the thing.

And please don't make assumptions about state schools and bullying.......

If you are looking for a move from Surrey, Kent has Cranbrook school that starts from year 9. Stuffed full of vair nice children.