Medicine - average UKCAT score

I don't think the OP's DD's UKCAT is weak tbh, it would meet the cut off for quite a few uni's who use it as part of the application process.

Also DD looked at Liverpool and unless they have changed the system they use I think OP's DD's GCSE results would meet their cut off too. But this would need checking, of course.

DD was asked what she regarded as the most significant advance in medicine. The building they were in was named after the chap who discovered it and she had failed to notice!
The panel was amused and she got an offer. They're not dragons.

Well done Libra's DS. What is Dundee's unusual interview technique?

Has your daughter considered any of the Scotish unis? I think Aberdeen is not so focused on the UKCat.

DS took his UKCat in June last year, as did most of his friends. Like your daughter, his school finished in May so he had the time to revise. He got 710, but several of his friends got interviews with lower scores.

I agree with the comments above about the PS needing something differrent to stand out because they will all have done work experience, been a prefect, etc. He found that all his interviewers were interested in his jazz music. He was able to take about the need for team work in jazz music in a way that emphasised his ability to work as part of a team but not in the usual seting. Must have been a bit more interesting for the interviewers too to be able to chat about something a bit different ( and I speak as one who does uni interviews although not in medicine).

He is off to Dundee next month. He turned down Glasgow and Aberdeen because he was so impressed by Dundee's unusual interview technique.

That said unitarian DS cringed over some of his not-pre-rehearsed answers as soon as he came out of interviews (especially his not-pre-rehearsed answer to the question 'What was the event in human history that you would most like to eradicate?' ....).

Still, what he said clearly wasn't the killer that he thought it would be :)

They must get the scores at roughly the same time as the students, probably before the students.
DD's UKCAT was above her year's average so I don't know how it played out in the darkened rooms of admissions tutors but the BMAT and UKCAT tests are so different that I assume they know that a student could do well on one and not the other.
It depends on how they use their own particular formula for picking, I suppose. If they don't require UKCAT they might ignore it altogether, or they might look at it as part of the general overview of the student. Maybe gut instinct comes into it somewhere!

I'm pretty sure that a BMAT med school will value a good BMAT score over a weak UKCAT score any day of the week.

In noddy's DD's case, I think her best chance this year is to try the BMAT exam. The best outcome is that she ends up at a BMAT uni but merely taking it might get her application that second glance at a non-BMAT med school that perhaps would get her foot in the door. So, if she gets a good BMAT result and has not been eliminated before early December when the result is out then she is still in with a chance.

What she has going for her is determination and, if she can get as far as an interview, she should be able to show that she's got what it takes.

She has a weak but not disastrous UKCAT score.
She has a full set of A's at GCSE, but not enough *s for B'ham, Bristol, L'pool.
She is taking the right A levels.
She's got a good work experience record.
She will write a good PS
She will have a good school reference
Her predicted grades will likely show that she is capable of offer grades.
She REALLY wants it.

A good BMAT score would put her in the running, I feel.
(She's on a par with my DD at this stage in the game. DD had a better UKCAT score but less work experience - and we were dead scared she was going to be predicted a B in the non-science A-level.)

I remember talking with you about interviews last year and agree that appearing pre-rehearsed is a bad idea. A subscription to New Scientist is a good investment!

unitarian do the BMAT universities know the UKCAT score or not? I had an idea that they did - and that some looked askance if the UKCAT was quite low. I may well have that wrong.

Tressy being able to think fast on your feet is obviously a great attribute for a doctor. Hence my earlier comment about the dubious value of going to interviews with the answers noticeably pre-rehearsed.

You're going about it the right way, noddy.

Taking BMAT might circumvent the UKCAT score to some extent.

I will probably be shot down for saying this but although unis don't know where else a candidate has applied they can infer. So, if the UCAS form shows that BMAT is being taken they will know she is applying to at least one of Oxbridge/ UCL/Imperial and a non-BMAT med school might decide to have a look at her with a view to snapping her up.

I'm tempted to suggest that she starts practising for BMAT and enters for the exam. Then apply to UCL or Imperial and Leeds plus two others or she could apply to 2 or more BMAT schools if she thinks the risk is worth taking.

She has nothing to lose this year and a lot to gain.

DD put something quite unique in her PS and just as she was leaving the interview they threw in a question about why she had put it and she fired off a fabulous, draw dropping answer, which she hadn't rehearsed at all. That must have clinched it.

I'd have thought more important than ever for a student who's going to be interviewed to write his own PS.

Just reread my posts, let's just say my DC's are much better than their Mum when it comes to grammar and spelling. It's just not my thing.

You're dead right about 'evidence of team work' Leanderbaer They are certainly looking for that.
DD cited her orchestral experience for that and her solo stuff as evidence of being able to work in isolation when necessary.

You set out your stall and make the most of the assets you have.

It is very wise to write your own PS. School 'checked' DD's and she got conflicting advice so stuck with her original draft.
I helped a bit when it came to pruning it to fit the word count and I did eliminate a grammatical howler that had crept in while it was being checked at school.....

Due to an, ermm interesting educational history, involving 3 other countries my DS did not have any GCSE'S (or equivalent qualifications) or that much in the lines of extracurricular stuff. No music, DOE, Prefect etc, etc. We didn't think it mattered much as long as he made what he had done relevant to his application. He had played sport, although at a recreational level but still mentioned it as being evidence of team work. He managed three interviews (and declined Bristol before they made a decision) so his lack of any achieved qualifications and less than 'standard' extra curricular activities did not hinder his application. He is a home student.
He managed to get a nice range of work experience but made sure that he did not just list them. He referred to what he learnt from different different situations. For example he said that after shadowing a particular doctor he realised quite how important good communication is and gave an example.

My DS wrote his PS himself and apart from one teacher reading through he did not get any other help. I think it was obvious that he wrote it himself and I like to think that was a good thing. You have to remember that a vast majority of medicine applicants have excellent qualifications, extra curricular activities and work experience.

I am very glad my DS2 wants to do something different.

On the PS - you get one shot at it, it will be read by 4 different med schools and it has to be much more than OK.

(Forgive me if I'm saying things I've said on other threads.)

Above all, the PS has to convince admissions tutors that she has it in her to be a doctor and survive the training.
They will all say that they've always wanted to be a doctor, save lives and have spent hours and hours slaving away in care homes.
The trick is to say all that and still stand out from the crowd without resorting to flippancy.

She should begin with why she wants to be a doctor and perhaps mention a particular aspect that holds a special interest, maybe citing some research that has been read.

Work experience shouldn't be presented as a list of things done. The PS should show that the student has assimilated things from the experience.

Don't be afraid to push the extra-curricular stuff. This gives tutors an idea of what sort of person you are and they like someone who has a release mechanism/ other absorbing interest. It shows a rounded person and an ability to withstand pressure.

Spend a few hours digging out all those school certs and awards to remind yourself what you have achieved over the past few years. You will probably not mention most of it but it might reveal a pattern or a personality trait that is worth highlighting.

Things that worked in DD's favour were work done with children; eg, as a classroom helper in science lessons working with statemented children. Also a months work as an au pair and some teaching in a foreign school whilst on a language exchange.
The interviewers were far more interested in these things than they were about the obligatory spell in a care home and shadowing a GP.
I was puzzled about this but now I know that students and doctors spend a lot of time teaching other students so she had ticked an important one of their boxes without realising it.

She made much of her musical experiences and one tutor commented that she obviously sets herself high standards. It could work equally well with sport or dance etc.

You will be asked about things on your PS at interview so keep a copy, read it before each interview and be sure that you can justify every word of it even if things go right up to the wire next April.

Thanks for the kind words, yellow.
I'm so glad you 'survived' the process and got the right outcome.

Some great advice here. It's all about researching the different universities and what they are hot on.

I'm no expert on medicine but I do know that some excellent academics wouldn't have the social skills which make a great medic.

I was delighted that my friends son got a place because he is exactly who you would imagine would make a great doctor. Not only does he work hard and attain consistently excellent grades academically, he can also hold an appropriate conversation with anyone and everyone, from tiny children to old people.

unitarian gave lots of very helpful advice last year; take it!

Someone mentioned writing an appropriate PS. This can be tricky for Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial applicants. As a tactical ploy, at least for Oxford applicants (where interviews are decided solely on a mathematical formula based on the BMAT + GCSEs, it may be wise (for the benefit of the other universities such as Birmingham/ Bristol) to go a bit light on the academic tenor of the PS.

My DS is Mr Cool and as laid back as can be. He and I started the Medicine Application Process thinking he would do everything for himself but we slowly realised he did need support and found it unexpectantly stressful. He went to all the open days on his own but I went with him to his interviews. It's agonising waiting and waiting to hear back from the Uni's. He was fairly confident he would get in as he had a very high UKCAT and thought his work experience and PS was good (although most are I would presume). He prepared really well for all his interviews and knew the courses and Uni's inside out. He was still asked lts of odd questions.
He did not have a plan B and did not apply for a fifth University. I thought that was a bad idea but it was his decision. It was a huge relief when he got his first offer. He has just finished his first year and is loving it.

Hope everything goes well.

unitarians advice to Cross each bridge as you come to it is excellent

I have a habit of adding another post when I've made a coffee and thought about it a bit more. Sorry.

Worry about interview questions/ what to wear etc. when you get to that stage but it is worth considering as part of the process of deciding where to apply.
For example, will she interview reasonably well? Some med schools don't interview or don't interview very many. Some interview lots and lots and use the interview very much as part of the selection process.
In DD's case, the three which interviewed her only interview candidates who have satisfied all the other criteria so 75% of interviewees get offers. This was a bit of a confidence-booster.

The first of these was a multi-mini scenario where 17 yr olds were up against post-grads and mature students. She survived that and got an offer from it and the next two interviews were relatively easy in comparison.

In the next 2 months your DD has to decide whether to take BMAT so she should look at some past papers and assess her chances. If she feels she will do reasonably well then she could apply to at least one BMAT school - Oxbridge, UCL, Imperial. In which case her somewhat weak UKCAT score becomes irrelevant.

My DD drew up a chart for herself based on:
a)where she would like to spend 5-6 years (and looking at where the clinical work is likely to be).
b) could she pursue her other interest happily there.
c) entry criteria. (Like your DD she had 6 GCSE s so she didn't apply to Birmingham. As a rough rule of thumb, if they don't use UKCAT or BMAT then med schools use the number of GCSE s as decider.)
d) ease of travel to and fro
e) she should have considered how the course is taught but didn't. She would now avoid PBL courses but it seems to suit plenty of students and, frankly, would you turn it down if that's the only offer?

This is old but useful as a starting point
[http://www.medschoolsonline.co.uk/index.php?pageid=78]

Don't be out off by the cost of London. The fees are the same, the travel to and fro is straightforward, the student finance increases and there are bursaries.

With a weakish UKCAT score and 6*s it isn't going to be easy but plenty of candidates with 'perfect' profiles don't succeed. My DD was never the one considered most likely to succeed in her sixth form but she was the only one who got three offers and ended up at her first choice med school.

DD is at a London med school, now approaching year 3 of 6. There has been some PBL and she hated it with a passion so she is very relieved that she turned down an offer from Manchester.
She is a late July baby and I was in favour of a year out. She wouldn't consider it. Her argument against a gap year was that she'll be turning 24 by the time she finishes her course, 26 by the time she's finished foundation, so why hang about for a year.
She had an offer from Leeds also and the competition was every bit as fierce that year ( her letter inviting her for interview - 2010- says they had 4800 applicants) but if you let the statistics put you off then you'll never get in.

Think of it this way. Everyone has applied to 4 med schools so that skews the stats, therefore divide by 4. Also there are no-hopers to weed out. And they will make offers to more than the number of available places because they know that some will use that offer as insurance and not ultimately take up the place.

The first goal is to get an interview and I'm convinced that this hangs on the personal statement, assuming the academic record is good enough, and assuming that she has chosen wisely in the first place.

But cross each bridge as you come to it.

First, decide where to apply based on where her particular strengths will help her avoid elimination without a second look. This is the most important part of the process.

Then write a brilliant PS.

Then be prepared to sweat for several months......

It's important to look at the Uni's actual Medical Admission Policy not just their Medical Applicant entrance requirements that you find on their website or prospectus. If you see what I mean
Leeds had 16 applicants to every place. Eeek!

Myrtille yes I realise that you meant informed guesswork but my point is that, as with exams, don't rely on anything in particular coming up or you could fall flat on your face. And if it does come up, it's possible to sound pre-rehearsed (which by definition you are!). As you say, a minefield.