Expected levels at the end of year 8?

my son was a 5b at the end of year year 6 and got a 6b by the end of year 7. the different schools must do the levels system differently.

I just wanted to say that if anyone is reading this thread, in the nicest possible way, please ignore TheBankOfMum's post. Her son is obviously truly exceptional. Which is lovely- but not helpful on an "expected levels' thread!

z o m b i e

It's important to remember that the NC levels are just a guide and, in some cases, a pretty useless guide.

My DS left yr6 with 5a's in English and science and a 6c for maths. He ended yr7 with level 8's in English, maths, science and geography and level 7's and 1 level 6 for the other subjects. He's now about to finish yr8 having been stuck at level 8a for all subjects but drama, P.E. and art for the last 6 mths.

He's been quite bored and unchallenged by the curriculum available at his current state school and has done a lot of independent learning as a result. We've found the whole 'levels and targets' business quite useless. When he finished yr7 with a level 6a for P.E. and 7b for D.T., the school stopped him from taking part in the end of year 'reward trip' claiming his levels were too low in these subjects and he needs to improve despite him being well above the national average. I was stunned!

He's moving to public school from yr9.

I think it is very unlikely that 5% of the population get a 6a. Even 6cs are incredibly rare in SATs and I went to a excellent primary school and only me and 2 other people managed to achieve a 6c. I don't think it is even possible to get a 6a, and even if it was primary schools do not have the resources to provide you with that you would need to achieve a 6a.

I have no idea what the average grade is but I would guess around a 5b/5a. I am in year 8 at the moment and in my year there are 5 sets for Maths, in set 5 the grades range from around 3a-4a, in set 4 4b-5b, in set 3 5c-6c, in set 2 6c-6a, and in set 1 (which I am in) 6a-7a, however around 4 or 5 people (including myself) achieve level 8s but it is hard work and rare. My school is a state school and achieved Outstanding from Ofsted, so depending on which school your son or daughter goes to this could be different.

Our y8s are given targets based on Fisher Family Trust but these can be lower than the actual levels that they are routinely achieving in their regular work. So at the end of the year they just tell the child that they have achieved or exceeded their target. I can't understand why the targets are not increased as the children progress.

Yeah, totally agree Bad Kitten. Also, in English, you are averaging writing, reading and speaking and listening.... 3 totally different things.

I have come to the conclusion over the past year that nc levels for secondary school kids are pretty much daft.

For example dd when she does an end of term assessment will be given 'x'-level. But that level only reflects her understanding in that particular aspect. It doesnt mean that she is that level across the whole of that subject. The end of year level dd was given was based on her end of year test. but that only reflected one year of teaching and she still has at two more years in those subjects with lots left to learn.

I also suspect that the assessed level varies from teacher to teacher and school to school depending on how conservatively they are judged by the criteria.

VJ32, could the teachers not change the targets to reflect the child' ability or are they set in stone from KS2? My son's Yr 7 science target was a 5b and he is now on a 6b so one would hope that his Yr 8 target would therefore be a 6a or 7c?

Depends on the child and how ambitious the school are. Targets are a load of rubbish though. For example, many schools base their targets on KS2 Maths and English SATS. Which is no indicator at all for music, dance, drama etc but they all have the same target. It is also completely useless when you have children (often boys) who are exceptional at maths but poor at English. They will be 'failing' written subjects like Geog and Hist throughout school, not because they are doing badly or not trying but because of the way their target is calculated.

"So for example, to help the OP, it says end of Yr 8 English 5A, Maths 5A, Science 5A, Drama 5A, Geog/Hist 4B, ICT/RE/Art/Tech 4A, Music/PE 5C, MFL 4A."

That's interesting. DD is just finishing year 7 and most of her class are at that level or above for maths, English and science. It is only an ofsted "satisfactory" state comprehensive BTW.

Or even top 2%?

KS2 levels do not correlate well with KS3 levels
BUT 6a in maths at KS2 SATs is top 5% of the population so I'd check what the school meant

For a 10 year old to get a level 6a is excellent and in any state school that would be exceptional.

When it says expected level, that's a minimum rather than an average - the expected level in Y6 is level 4, any student getting a level 3 or below would be seen as struggling.

Can I butt into this thread, sorry. My 10 year old (year 6) just go level 6a in maths the school said he is more suited to a less academic school (independent) how can this be if only level 5 is expected in year 8 ? We have only been here a year so I am unsure of how the system works.

Our school (non-selective comp) gives a little chart for expected grades for the "average student" for each term. Average remember: Mnetters children obv never average anyway.

So for example, to help the OP, it says end of Yr 8 English 5A, Maths 5A, Science 5A, Drama 5A, Geog/Hist 4B, ICT/RE/Art/Tech 4A, Music/PE 5C, MFL 4A.

Ibizagirl, if your DD is being given A-level work in maths then a KS3 level is meaningless. The school will have to report this to the government but you should be given grades that reflect her actual level of work, e.g. AS grade C etc. I assume she's actually preparing to sit A-level modules?

Wowee, ibizagirl, I think there are some exceptional circumstances - your dd is amazingly clever! Hope you didn't take offence at what I wrote as there was definitely none meant - as you can tell it's not often that we come across children like your dd! :)

OP - DCs can only reach a level if they have covered the work.
DS's level for ICT at the end of year 7 was 4a - much lower than for most other subjects. His ICT teacher's explanation was ' We haven't started on level 5 work yet.'

spg1983 Thanks for comments. Dd is very good at German and can hold a conversation. She has taken and passed an NVQ level 2 for German and her teacher says dd has found it easy to pick up. She has been getting 7A since year 7 for German assessments as she includes all the criteria necessary as far as i know and was told. Teacher sometimes gives level 8 if they feel work has surpassed what is needed or for outstanding or exceptional work. Same as in history.
imnotmymum Thanks for your comment too. Dd took and passed her gcse maths with A* in year 7 and is doing a level work at the moment. She doesn't want to take any more exams at the moment after just doing German nvq. She starts gcse work in September and some children can take them in year 9. Best wishes to you both.

ibiza my yr 7 DD got level 7a in maths and Science in assessments so school are working her at a higher level from September and she will take GCSE early does your school allow this ??It is frustrating I know as my eldest DD got 100% in her maths so achieved the highest score but does not reflect what she could have got ! School really good though so I would check in with tutor.

Oops - I meant the brightest children in Yr 8 got 7a in Maths.

ibizagirl I would question those levels, especially at Year 8. The brightest children in our year got a 7a so fair enough. History - I know nothing about, sorry! I teach German, and there is no Level 8, as far as I'm aware it only exists in Maths.

In order to have got a Level 7 in German, a child would have had to write (or speak) approx 3-5 paragraphs of exceptionally accurate German, using at least 3 different tenses but probably 4 for a Level 7. It would have had to include opinions, extended sentences with advanced ideas (i.e. idioms/subordinate clauses/other features of an advanced writer) and would have been written for a specific audience, so a news article or something like that, all from memory. If your daughter is a native speaker or has lived in a German-speaking country for a long time then she should be able to do this, but for a child who would have started German in Yr 7 or Yr 8, this is pretty impossible for the end of Year 8.

Obviously if there's some kind of circumstances I've missed, such as your dd being bilingual then I apologise, but I would seriously question the accuracy of this level if there are no exceptional circumstances.

Dd's targets are 7A for end of year 8. She is getting 7A and also getting 8 for maths, german and history at the moment. She is in set 1 (top) for all academic subjects and getting these levels but others within her set are getting 5's and 6's but are learning the same work. So i wouldn't worry too much about levels. Dd wouldn't be able to gain 2 sub levels per year. She left primary on 5A, got 7A in year 7 assesment for some subjects and can't get any higher in year 8 so she hasn't moved! So when she gets her report it will say a remark that she hasn't gained these sub levels (like it did on her last report) which doesn't make any sense. How can she gain these sub levels when there is nowhere to go? Advice would be welcome thank you.