Wilsons, Wallington, Tiffin, Sutton – why so many applications? Are parents kidding themselves?

There is no secret to the Tiffin test.

It is multiple choice set by GL assessment. This means there are 21 different types of verbal reasoning question and 6 different types of non-verbal reasoning question to practice. Exam technique including speed and accuracy is essential. Practising relevant and difficult materials is also essential, eg GL Assessment, Walsh, etc.

Throwing money at a specialist tiffin tutor is not necessarily the best solution, as I learnt from personal experience. Far better to guide your child yourself if you are that keen on getting a place at one of the Tiffin schools. It's all about using your and your child's time effectively. A couple of sessions a week for 9 months is ample time to prepare.

My DS got a place at one of the schools mentioned in the title. There are 20 boys in each class.

don't know about Tiffin but there are 33 in the extension stream at Graveney - they can barely fit in the form room - god knows what it's going to be like when they're all hulking Year 11s rather than little Year 7s ...

Tiggy do you have any idea how many dc are in each class in these superselective grammars. I've heard due to place ties/ appeals etc a lot of grammars are now having up to 33 in each class which surely impact on dc's education.

Its the dc I really feel for Tiggy. I know 2 boys who sat the Tiffin exam last year and IMO the more brilliant one didn't get in despite coaching. The other boy was very clever but had been tutored to the zenith ( tutors for 2 yrs, 3- 4 hours practice weekly, 5 hrs pratice/ day during summer hols of yr 5) and looked it. I really do feel this grammar madness is because most comps don't focus much of the attention on the very able, prefering to push the borderline D/Cs to augment the league tables. This leaves parents feeling that if their dc are not in a grammar they won't reach their full potential.[ sad]

You seem to have a lot of insight and inside info into 11+ exams Tiggy. Do you set the exams or are you a tutor ?

This post by Tiggytape on another thread was particularly enlightening and show how the Tiffin test is very unfair for equally bright kids who've not had the benefit of being tutored by Tutors who are familiar with the format.

If you consider over 1500 pupils take the Tiffins test (all of whom will be a level 5 minimum or most likely a level 6 SATS in all subjects) you can see this isn't a test to see who is clever enough and who isn't. It is a test that takes 1500 kids (of whom at least 1000 will be exceptionally gifted and easily clever enough to excel at Grammar school) and whittles them down to the last 150 men standing. There are children who take the test who achieve level 6 in all their SATS who don't get a place. With 10 - 12 applicants per place, getting just one question wrong or being a fraction too slow is the difference between getting a place and not getting one. This is where tutoring comes in - speed and accuracy as well as short cuts and familiarity might gain you 3 extra marks on your paper and that makes all the difference. Once upon a time (and still today in some areas) the 11+ sorted children who were clever and would benefit from a grammar school education from those who would not be suited to it.Nowadays most people do not take the 11+ exams and the test just acts to assess which of the 1000+ exceptionally bright children who apply should be chosen.

Tiffin says its test is untutorable but clearly its not and a few tutors make a very lucrative business out of this.

My DS didn't do Tiffin because of location, and reading this thread, I'm glad he didn't. But to reassure the OP, the Wilson's and Sutton tests were much closer to school work and he is now going to Wilson's without ever having been an ace at NVR; it's based on Maths and English, and he came out of the test saying he recognised the questions because they were like school and the ones he's done with a primary school teacher who did some tutoring with him. He was level 5 maths and level 4 (can't remember the letter) end year 5, if that helps.

I would agree with tiggytape - the difficulty with the Tiffin test is all in the timing.

The VR is really not that different from the GL Assessment papers you can buy in the shops, though the odd word may be more obscure and the overall level slightly harder. I think the Walsh papers have harder vocabulary than the real thing (so if you can do those, you should be fine!) and, in fact, the Walshes don't use their own papers for their tutor groups.

I think the real difference lies in the difficulty of finishing the NVR in 50 minutes (as I've said before.) It is extremely common for DC to come out of the test having guessed the last 5-10 questions because they ran out of time. There doesn't appear to be the same problem with the VR

Carrots

My DD who is currently in year 11 at TGS finds the majority of her classmates are from the local area.

I really don't find that TGS is complacent and the newish Head, Mrs Ward, is fantastic and has made some welcome changes. I don't think the school perceives itself as competing with Coombe or any other school, just providing a good experience for the girls who are there. Re languages, everyone does French, Latin and Spanish (also an opportunity for ancient Greek) and can do GCSEs in all three if desired.

DD has never found the school particularly pressurised. All the girls are capable of getting at least an A in each subject but they are not machines. There are some with pushy parents, wannabe doctors etc, but on the other hand, there are quite a few girls in this years year 11 cohort who are not particularlly interested in getting A or A*, concentrate on thier social lives and are as lazy as hell. I expect the results will be down this year!

I don't think the Tiffin results are that much better than the other local(ish) super-selectives to warrant that level of tutoring, do you?

Sorry Tiggy didn't realise you where already on the thread

I know someone who has got their ds into Tiffin this year and can confirm the exam is very different from any other 11+ exam I've seen. There is nothing currently out on the market which would adequately prepare dc for it because the school wants the exam to be untutorable. However the irony is the only way you will get an idea what it looks like is by going to a tutor who specialises in the Tiffin exam. I can only equate it to the type of code breaking exercises used by m16 to recruit potential spies. One Poster Tiggytape describes the Tiffin test very well and gives a realistic picture of the process. Please do not ask me to recommend tutors as I'm totally against the Tiffin test because Imo it is the most unfair 11+ exam out there. I'm also totally at what the tutors and parents put their dc through to pass Tiffin. I think the school needs to seriously rethink the test for the good of its pupils.

Good luck and hope all goes well for your DC!

Ahhh, not at 10.30!

www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/advice/gl-assessment-nfer-and-letts/

HI OP, my message of yesterday at 10.30 has the link (in plaintext, you will have to cut and paste).

I feel for you OhDear - it really is a shame you are being made to jump through these hoops to get a decent school for your DS.