Wilsons, Wallington, Tiffin, Sutton – why so many applications? Are parents kidding themselves?

Wallington PTA run a mock exam - not only does this give your DS valuable exam experience but you will be able to see from the results where your DS sits against his peers. I know of a number of parents who stopped tutoring based on the results, as they felt that if they were not in the top 200 they most probably wouldn't get in to one of the grammar schools. It still meant a certain amount of tutoring, but they felt that they benefitted from that anyway.
With regards to tutoring in general, if you take a relaxed non-pressurised approach to it, then the chances are your DS won't find the experience a negative one. My DS was tutored for 1 year, with a specific Tiffin tutor, and he had 1 hour a week with her and then a maximum of 2 hours homework. I felt that he wasn't over worked and he had plenty of time for being a child. We only tutored him because we knew he was consisitently performing well at school and we didn't have great local choices for him.
Some children are put through this experience because of parental expectations rather than their natural ability. But we also had a tutor who was VERY honest, and would not continue tutoring children after a certain point if she felt (with many years of experience) that they were not doing sufficiently well. Harsh but ultimately kind?? Who knows - it's a minefield but you know your DS, you know best how well he will cope and if he's bright and a high achiever then he won't need the huge amounts of work that some children are put through. Good luck :)

don't have time to read the whole thread, but if I remember well format of Sutton Grammar answer sheets is different from the rest.

check that with your son so he understands it

No you don't really need to - I wouldn't really formalise the process but incorporate fun learning into day-to-day life - finding synonyms for things, doing puzzles etc.... I personally think more formalised work on Bond books etc... should only start in Year 5.

They are children and six to nine months of practising papers should be enough if you have a bright child!

Hi everyone!

I'm new to the whole grammar school entrance scene and need some advise. My son will start year 4 in September and is fairly bright. He is working on a 3a/3b level at school. Recently we got in contact with a 11+ tutor who assessed him. The tutor felt that my son was focused and was doing well enough to start tutoring him in year 5. In the meantime, I can work with him at home as I do. I am wondering if this is the right way to go about things, or should children start tutoring in year 4?

Mind you - I need to follow that advice myself!! I've just realised I'm now starting on the secondary transfer nightmare treadmill with dd!!!!

TheWomanOntheBus - I think the Wilson's head speaks the truth. My informant (ds) says that the maths paper really did only cover maths they'd done at school, the English was straightforward, and the VR and NVR just like the ones you buy from WHSmith. He came out with level 5s. The school didn't reveal what level of level 5 - mainly because it was a very low-octane state school that had no interest in enhancing the learning experience provided to their students beyond the bare minimum for the national curriculum. Hth - don't despair/give in to the hysteria.

correction..."to tutor or not to tutor"

TheWoman, I don't think the Wallington head included the "to tutor or not tutor" in his soliloquy. He may have, I think I dozed off half way through...

Or in short, "we here at Tiffin have an exam which has NOTHING to do with what your child has been doing at his state primary and passing it has EVERYTHING to do with techniques, speed, accuracy and preparation, as studies and experience have shown. But please, please, do not tutor your child."

The 11+ industry I mentioned includes DIY too! In the form of books, more books, CDs, websites, apps, mocks...
And chill pills for the parents.

TheWomanOnTheBus - my personal experience of sending my child to tiffin tutor went something like this: child goes for one and half hour session in group of 8; sits timed paper; swaps paper with another child to mark; goes over corrections (mainly by himself). However, in my child's case, there were so many corrections and not enough time to go over them (he hadn't done any previous practice on VR and NVR). From speaking with fellow Mums in the area, this seems to be a very common scenario, although I accept some tutors do offer a bit more guidance.
I removed my child from these sessions after 5 weeks and £125 wasted pounds later. Neither child nor parent were any the wiser - and I later came to realise the practice papers he was given were so ancient and not relevant to the current tiffin test.
The key to success - research the test type (in case of Tiffins it is multiple choice set by GL assessment, not Bond or anyone else) and prepare your child specifically for that test; go through a method and technique course for each different question type; sit timed tests; pinpoint weaknesses and practice those question types; use plenty of incentives to encourage child to increase speed and accuracy. Sit a couple of mock tests to get a feel for the exam experience.
Following that sort of process, scores will increase dramatically (no specialist tutor required). But anyone doing that for 2 years is crazy ? 9 months is quite enough and will prevent boredom setting in.
I wish you luck with your preparations.

The general consensus was that you can improve a "natural" score by upto 20% with tutoring for these subjects.

Absolutely. Hence a booming tutoring industry.

Aren't VR and NVR in IQ tests because they would not normally have been taught? Well not until they appeared in entrance exams, that is.

DS attends a state primary which gave no help to the grammar-school aspirant cohort. Ironically DS obviously upped his game with the inclusion of VR/NVR in some of the 11+ papers. He didn't get into Wilson's, whereas he got offers at the other two, and I'm sure that was entirely down to the fact that his English is relatively weak and the NVR/VR boosted his marks.

But I personally don't think NVR/VR can necessarily be taught easily - it's not without good reason that they form the basis of IQ tests

In our case, after months of debating, comparing, asking ourselves "do we really like these schools? or are we just buying into the mass hysteria?" we have reached the conclusion that we only like Wilsons. (And so does DS). Which means we can drop VR and NVR during the summer and concentrate on maths and english. I have no words to express the relief I feel about this!!! I am stopping to put my child through hours of learning something that is useless other than for passing the 11 plus. IMO all schools should be testing DCs on what they have learnt in the classroom.

Frankly, I wish they would stop publishing league tables - at least based on exams grades. I think this is one of the reasons why people are so desperate to get their kids into these schools. The elevenplusexams website is quite frightening - preparing for 2 or 3 years - it has become an arms race.

Tiffin Girls' is a lovely school - but at the end of the day it is just a school. There are a lot of good schools. I feel some parents think it is the Holy Grail of education and their daughters will come off the conveyor belt in 7 years time straight to Oxbridge of Med School. I think academic girls would do well at any school.

When I went to grammar school, many years ago, the classes were 30-31, but split into 20s for things like art and science.

Tiggy,

RE the class sizes at grammars... I can only speak for TGS. Yes they are in forms of 30 to begin with. As with other schools there are smaller groups for those needing more help in maths and in the GCSE option classes later on. In my younger DD's comp the top stream are taught in classes of 30 up to GCSE with much smaller classes for those struggling or with EAL.

My DD came from a very small independent where they were taught in classes of about 12-15. She much preferred the bigger classes at Tiffin Girls. I have never heard parents complain about it as it is pretty much the norm at state schools; if parents really don't know they haven't done their homework! I certainly don't think it impairs their learning. All the girls are clever and they move at a fast pace above and beyond the national curriculum.

It was similar at my own grammar school 30 years ago - forms of 30 or 31 and then split into smaller option groups later on.