Graveney - Renting in catchment for admissions purposes

"My daughter currently lives with her Mum (561 metres away from Graveney - based on the Wandsworth GIS). I live just less than 300 metres away......."

Thanks for your advice. I figured that would be the answer, but wanted to check!!

One other question to pose to the group - If myself and the ex decided to switch properties (which we have talked about a number of times) - In the groups opinion, does this constitute 'cheating'?

"Given the considerable effect of the significant selective intake, is Graveney performing any better than other reputable comps? "

Yes:

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=137005

55% high achievers, but

Average D- per GCSE for low attainers, 6.2 GCSEs per candidate
Average C per GCSE for medium attainers, 9.1 GCSEs per candidate
Average A- per GCSE for high attainers, 11.5 GCSEs per candidate

Compare, Platanos:

www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/schools/performance/school.pl?urn=136450

Only 11% high achievers, and

Average D-/7.1 GCSEs low attainers
Average C-/8.8 GCSEs medium attainers
Average B-/10.6 GCSEs medium attainers

Ernest Bevin:
26% high achievers
Average E-/3.9 GCSEs
Average C-/7.7 GCSEs
Average B-/10.9 GCSEs

So the top stream, which is more than half the school, perform very well - as well as at a normal (not super-selective) grammar school (A- average is usual at grammar schools).

London is such a shithole with kids.

Sorry, as you were.

You have to apply from the address your daughter lives at most of the time during the school week, so use her mother's address. Using your address would be fraudulent and could mean the offer of a place is withdrawn.

My daughter currently lives with her Mum (561 metres away from Graveney - based on the Wandsworth GIS). I live just less than 300 metres away. We jointly own the house my daughter lives in and my father and I own the house I live in. Both my kids spend at least 1 day a week with me and most weekends, but their mum is the primary carer (as she receives the child benefit). Based on my research I'd guess that 561 metres is just about on the cusp of getting in based on distance and that 300m is well within, but my question would be - which address should we apply from? All thoughts gratefully received

Given the considerable effect of the significant selective intake, is Graveney performing any better than other reputable comps? With the more average spectrum of intake? I'm not saying it's a bad school, but isn't it's reputation down to the super-selective places? The new admissions policies seem to be support keeping the results up by influencing the intake.

If you are moving specifically for a school I would move somewhere with a good back-up plan. Are the other local schools good? Do you know that Graveney will actually suit your child? (as far as such a prediction is possible)

Reading down this old thread - interesting to see the comments on Stockwell Park which is now called Platanos College, is 'outstanding' and had excellent results in the last round!

That is exactly what has happened with my ds2 who scored quite highly but nowhere near enough for a selective place. Why? Because he knew he was getting in anyway so did about a quarter of the practice his older brother did. He is no less intelligent.

Yes, but that's not going to make a huge difference to numbers - what the school is hoping for is that they'll get a lot of bright siblings who just miss getting in on the test but still get very high scores

There's not going to be much incentive for children to try as hard as they possibly could if they know that whatever score they get they'll still get in...

Of the children I know in extension, very few of the guaranteed to be in catchment children scored high enough marks on the test to get on as one of the top 63 .. However they are now more than holding their own against out of catchment children who'd scored 100%

CecilyP, everyone applying to a Wandsworth school has to take the Wandsworth year 6 test, so if a sibling gets in on test, the fact that they are a sibling doesn't come into it.

If my memory serves me correctly, the Admissions Lady at Graveney (who used to be at DS's school) is lovely and very helpful and I'm sure will be very reasonable about sharing collated information on distance etc....once the hysteria of 1st March is done with.

Presumably if it's being done on straight distance now, you could probably do a DIY job with a pin and a piece of string/thread to get some idea of what might/might not be in catchment....?

Aren't the Graveney teachers' children also factored into the admissions criteria now, so that could potentially skew chance of getting a place for one's DC somewhat - or not....

Siblings will be given a place anyway so it means that even if they do take the test (as all Wandsworth pupils do), it doesn't matter what they get

The end result should be that the cohort of high achieves at the school is larger - let's face it, children scoring on the 97th percentile are still very bright but would not get a test place. The downside for local, averagely achieving children is that the catchment will get smaller. It will also mean that house prices in streets which are in the very immediate surrounds will start fetching silly prices ...

It's important to remember that IMO while Graveney is an excellent school if your child is in the top two streams, it doesn't serve the lower achieving children as well, so I wouldn't move just to get into the school unless I was pretty sure my child was a high achiever

lambone, the younger siblings of clever kids may be clever themselves, but they are unlikely to take the test if they get in automatically as siblings. Which means that the kids that get on via the test will be new kids without older siblings, so the change will shrink the catchment.

Yes, the address that was 913m away by shortest safe walking distance works out as about 650m in a straight line (it was on display at the last open day).

But surely the test is so tight, it must be just 1 question in it for most of the kids, maybe even 1/2 a question

BTW I was told distances will go down when it comes to straight lines

MrsMilk, you might want to consider that the younger siblings of clever kids are often (but not always I know) pretty smart themselves, so many of them could get in on the test, and not need to rely on the fact that they are siblings.So sibling category may not be significantly affected.

Call Graveney after 1st March to see how far out they are going-a lot of guesswork at the moment with the change in measurement. Then come back and tell us!

Something has happened recently in the larger area there has been another massive jump in prices look for previously sold prices on the same streets, some have gone up by 50% ASKING price in less than 1 year (and no not home improvements)

will be interesting to see what happens to them

WOW! Have just done a search for properties near Graveney school which are for sale. The cost of those homes would pay my two children's private school fees many, many , MANY times over!

Very best of luck to get into the area you are hoping for (and then to also get a school place).

Ladies thanks so much for your replies. Yes irisgrey it's a v big financial decision we really don't want to get wrong! I wonder if Wandsworth would let us into their 'straight line measurement' tool!! We've driven round the neighbourhood and are really excited about the potential move.

I'd kind of heard about the ups and downs in the sibling policy but wasn't sure where it was right now. I guess that expanding it back to include siblings of all children ever admitted on the basis of the test will have a major impact on the catchment area. Did they implement that rule very long ago in the first place? Just wondering if I should check out what the catchment was back then if not too long ago....

My DS is in Yr 4 just now so would not be entering for another two years. The thing is we need to sell our house for financial reasons anyway...husband losing his job and wants to work for himself so all a bit scary and risky and we think we should downsize house now to feel a bit safer....so we are wanting to make the move as soon as .. really. Plus there are the obvious advantages of feeling well settled in the area before he starts, and obviously NOT looking like we've parachuted in temporarily!

Thanks again for your help and advice. I greatly appreciate it.

Best,

MM

Bear in mind that the catchment area will not only shrink (because of the siblings rule) it will also change shape because of the way distances are measured

Some streets which have usually been considered 'safe' will be out - the gains will be generally made on the Church Lane side of the catchment - traditionally Graveney renters and buyers have moved into the rather naicer streets around Moyser Road but this side will probably be the disadvantaged side

I would go for around 600m to be absolutely sure, depending on when you want to get your eldest child in. Two years ago we were outside the area at just under 800 metres. Last year we would have been well inside but as Classicsgirl says the area is going to start shrinking again. They have also changed the way they measure this year (now doing it in straight lines rather than walking routes) so maybe you can be a little further as the crow flies but I'm not really sure what effect this change will have. If you are going to all the trouble of moving, make sure it is really close!

Hi - I don't have any inside knowledge, but I would expect the distance to shrink because the admissions policy has changed for this year ( and probably the future but who knows?) Last year and the year before siblings only had priority if they were siblings of the non-selection places, which meant there were fewer siblings overall and therefore more places awarded on distance. This year it changed back to the previous policy of all siblings having priority, which means a number of siblings who would not have priority before will now get places. I would therefore expect the overall number of siblings to go up and the distance places and distance catcent to go down,IYSWIM.

Hello I've just found this v old (and vv interesting thread!) and hope that some of you might still be available for wise advice on this matter!

We are also thinking of moving to FD to get our eldest DS into Graveney but please hold your fire.....!!

We really truly want to move into the community and stay there! We will sell our current home to buy in FD and that will be that. No more moving....

My question is ... how close is close enough? Some of you have referred to friends who lived 'a few streets away' and still didn't get in but what exactly does that mean. I've looked at the WBC brochure on secondary entry for this year and, if I'm reading it right, children up to 913m were offered places last year. Does that sound right? And are there any particular factors (eg changes in admissions policies) that are on the cards that would make a massive difference to that?

Many many thanks in advance....

MM

I emailed Wandsworth admissions about this issue as I feel very strongly that renting temporarily for the purposes of school admission is morally repugnant. I got an email back saying they check addresses thoroughly. If the school/LA are tacitly encouraging this practice, I hope it blows up in their faces. If I lived locally I would be straight onto the local councillors and MP.

I phoned Graveney school admissions dept, and spoke to the admissions secretary (this was two years ago, admittedly). she told me she was aware of the problem of people renting locally only for them to move out of the area. She said to me that there was nothing they could do about it, and what did i suggest? I was pretty taken aback, as it's pretty obvious what they could do. For starters, every child should have a local address, not just the eldest child. I know of a wealthy family who did the "Graveney Shuffle"as it's known around here - ie rented for six months to get eldest child into Graveney. (They have four children). In the interim they spent over £100k doing up their house in SW12. they could have afforded to send their children to private school, but instead chose to play the system and cheat a local child out of a genuine change. Whatever the defenders of this system say, it is morally indefensible to do that IMO. While I could have done the same thing, I just couldn't bring myself to do it in the end, tempted as I was. We ended up paying for dS to attend a private school, which we can ill afford to do (neither of us being City workers). Thank god Bolingbroke has opened up, where our younger son has just started. But it's shameful that this still goes on.