Downsides to scholarships

All three of our DC got either scholarships or bursaries. Mixing socially was never a problem. Boys at DS1s school were jealous boatyboys dad was a security guard in a factory . When the DSs went to a indie senior together some boys thought they were related to a local businessman same surname and wanted to know what coloured Rolls Royce we had!! We had a 15yr old Escort that leaked in the rain! We didn't hide our background and generally other parents were happy that bursaries were going on pupils whose parents wanted their children to do well regardless of income.
There was far more snobbery and 'class' distinction in the state schools they went to.

Oundle do have a 'sibling given preference' policy, tho' not, of course, a guarantee. Which doesn't help if DC2 is several years younger than DC1 and still at prep

You don't have to be an accountant to work out that you would need to take other school fees for other children into consideration. But didofido I'm not surprised about what you say, friends at Christ's Hospital were told the same thing. The problem is that both these and others are fairly selective and unless the school has a sibling policy guaranteeing a sibling a place come what may regardless then its obviously ridiculous. The cause of all of this is obvious many schools have been forced told to go down the road of offering bursaries by the charities commission and ultimately just don't have the money to fund 100's of places with 50% bursaries particularly in the boarding sector where your talking about a reduction of £17 000 so put up lots of barriers to not doing it. Obviously this policy cant apply to single sex schools but I'm sure they create other barriers instead.

Interesting, didofido - I have only encountered what I was told was a fairly standard form, which did include it (mind you, what they ask you to detail and what they actually take into account may, of course, be entirely different things....).

Not always, Stealthsquiggle. The bursar at Oundle has that fees for DC at schools other than Oundle will not be taken into account. That obviously includes younger one/s still at prep. So, worth asking specifically about this

Thanks Stealthsquiggle

Peppin - school fees (current and anticipated) are one of the things you declare on the forms - so they get taken into account.

Apologies for the slight thread hijack (though I think this may be of interest to more than just me):

How do bursaries work where you have, say, 2 children being privately educated?

For example, when DC1 is 11, you work out you can - with lots of "lifestyle" sacrifices - afford to send that DC to private school. You hope that by the time DC2 gets to that age your income will have risen. But what happens if your circumstances have changed for the worse and you can only afford to pay for 100% of fees for one DC, or say 65% of the fees if both DCs go private? Is this a factor that would be taken into account by either or both schools for the purposes of a bursary award? Does it make a difference if the schools in question are brother/sister schools in the same town (i.e. the boys' and girls' private schools at which many familes will have a child at each school)?

If you do go for a bursary as opposed to a scholarship, do ensure you're incredibly organised and don't mind filling in tons of forms. I have a friend with two kids on bursaries who said, although absolutely worth it, the paperwork every year (yes, every year) is a nightmare. Another Mum I know told me with her schools bursary, if you don't get even a single piece of paper in on time, they ask you to come in with a credit card to pay for that term's fee or your child is suspended.

Don't know of any schools that offer 100% scholarships, 50% is the highest I've heard of and incredibly difficult to get. Having said that there are honorary scholarships. A friend of a friend had a son who got all his fees paid (despite not scoring that high in the exams) thro' getting an honorary scholarship for fencing.

You can however more often, get 100% bursaries. They, like schloarships, are extremely sought after and your child would have to score really within the top few to get one especially for sport. South of the river the most generous, in terms of the number given out, is the Whitgift Foundation, who have a rather large fund:)

Yes are bursary is so large because we pay for boarding can you not consider this? Boarding schools who offer actual genuine bursaries to all (although few and far between) are in my now extensive experience are significantly more generous.

chaz thank you for finding me a house.
I would move to a house like that tomorrow, but if I do the numbers with that rent and pay for private school I still don't make it to the end of the month. The other problem is that kind of price can be found miles away from the schools we are thinking of applying to and if getting a bursary means DS has to travel an hour and a half to school, then I will send him to the local comp. Just not worth it.

middleclass, your situation may be due to the school being boarding and therefore more expensive? In London, a day school would not give a bursary to a family with a combined income of 82000 a year -- or so I have been told. For example the Whitgift foundation has a very clear scale. Again, I do hope I am getting something wrong here.

I suspect expectations vary from school to school. Someone above talked about Milfield and sports scholarships I suspect they expect more from their sports scholars than an average run of the mill private school. I'm sure the very selective schools expect more from their scholars and also bursaries are often "satisfactory performance" related.

Oh and re expectations - in talking to kids who have shown us around schools, there are expectations placed on scholars of all types, but none of them seemed to think they were particularly onerous or unreasonable - music scholars turning up for chapel, academic scholara keeping up effort grades, and the like.

We as the nick name suggests receive a bursary from a boarding school we have a combined income of £82 000 a year and get more than a 50% reduction in school fees which are £32 000 per year. We don't live in London and rent an average three bedroomed property in a small town which is slightly under the current market rent due to the fact it's a high flood risk! But what I believe enables us to qualify for a bursary is that we have no savings, no property with equity no trust funds etc. flash cars. We live a middle class life we dont shop in Asda but Waitrose or primark but White Stuff etc we have one family holiday a year: camping in France we're not counting every penny just fairly careful. But we can't save anything significant or have a pension or of course buy a house. Over the last 7 years we've spent over £100 000 on education; the deposit on a house. Do we ever regret it? NO. HOf course no where is perfect and some bits of all schools are irritating and even wrong but an its still an outstanding education and education is one of the most important gifts you can give your child.

I wouls echo whoever said to try googling The Girls' Day School Trust. Great schools with a strong tradition of philanthropy (they used to be free).

I don't envy you, OP - the more I hear about London schools the more stressful it sounds for all concerned [country mouse and glad of it]

• sorry hit post too soon

There are 3 bed houses available further out and I wonder if they would question why you need to live in a more expensive area and then ask for help with the school fees.

In relation to a mortgage that level of repayments would cover a mortgage of around 350K which outside the SE of England would buy a reasonable / nice house in most areas.

You see I think of myself as middle class not wealthy and can afford private school but accept that isn't true for all m/c people and that some m/c are now feeling really squeezed.

hardboiled I also live in London and rent out property. I agree in the centre 22K might be a family rent but I think if you were looking for a bursary they might expect you to look at something like this
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-37820822.html
near Harrow School

chat I live in London and I think a rent of 22000 is not aiming high at all for a family! I have no equity at all. I just don't know how people do it unless I am getting something wrong or private school is let's face it not for the middle class but for the wealthy and for the clever on very low income?

Both my DC gained bursaries and we are not wealthy but by no means poor. My DD was given a bursary because the school was failing to attract pupils and merged two years later. (Yes I now know how to check a school out financially and wish I knew then!). My DS was offered a scholarship which on the prospectus didn't exist, but was given non the less. It was called a Headmaster's award and this with the bursary, enabled DS to attend his no1 choice school. We had no idea of how the indie system worked as we had only moved over to it when DD was yr9 and DS was year 7 so it was a learning game and one which led me to write a practically begging letter to the governors of my DS school! It worked so what can I say! The only reason why the award would be taken away would be if my son broke the school rules. He had no added expectation, however his friends with academic, Sport or music scholarships, are all expected to fulfil certain criteria to keep their awards.

Re: the fitting in, I have experience of both sides (state and independent). There is far more bitchiness directed towards the poorer children at the state school I work in from the middle-class children there, than at the less-well-off kids at DS's prep. Just as happy says above really.

The only nasty kid my DS has encountered at Prep, is the child of a woman with a similar, working-class background to my own, who clearly feels so ashamed of it she is passing on these attitudes to her DC's. Which is a bit sad (for her DC's), but my DS is far too astute and comfortable in his own skin to let people like that bother him.

DS is shortly to sit for an academic scholarship. He might not get it, he knows that, but his current school think he has a reasonable chance, so he will go for it. It will last for all 5 years at senior school, the only requirements once it is gained are: to set a good academic example (i.e. try your best), and attend all the scholars programme events. Not a problem.

hardboiled they would expect you to take steps to reduce your mortgage or rent or free up equity from your property. Lets face it 22K per year is a fairly large mortgage (especially if you are outside the SE of England)

There is also some anxiety about appearing to favour incumbents whose circumstances have changed, over external bursary applicants, with the need to appear visibly above board for the purposes of perceptions around charitable status.

In my experience (not personal thank god) you have to be increasingly high calibre to be able to stay on if you find you need a bursary. This will depend on school's individual resources. You will normally need to be at least scholarship standard. There is growing pressure on bursaries as more and more parents need them with changing economic circumstances.

Wait a minute... So if I am earning 70000 a year schools say I can pay fees...
70000 gross income minus tax is 42000.
42000 minus rent or mortgage let's say 22000 is 20000.
20000 minus school fees of 15000 is 5000. Let's not mention uniform, food and trips...
With 5000 a year I have to pay all bills, heating etc, plus feed the family, plus cloth them, plus car insurance, transport, phone, plus

In my experience the wealthier the children's parents are the less snobby they are. My DS's friends parents are and have included in the past Sunday Time rich listers and hereditary peers with 30 bedroomed piles and land as far as the eye can see, neither the parents nor the children seem that bothered that we're just an average middle class family.