bursaries... would this piss you off?

The foundation which owns DSs school provides in excess of £4million worth of bursaries each year, across 3 schools. It is still not enough to give funding to every child who needs a bursary.

Hi - just in reply to the view - why wouldn't all poor parents with bright childrn be chomping at the bit to get their children into private school...

1 - Selective schools often wont take children with special needs - many parents prefer to sned siblings to the same schools, therefore any bright child with a sibling with special needs is unlikely to apply.

2 - Being the poor parents at the school gates is torture.
3 - Being the poor child at school could be awful.
4 - The additional school holidays are a killer - any working parent on a low income will struggle to pay for holiday clubs and extra child-care.
5 - We're all comfortable with what we know - state educated parents know the state system, they know what to expect of teachers, what they can ask for in terms of stretching bright children, how the governing body works, etc
6 - Travel to school - could be costly, could be pratically impossible if you've one child who gets into independent and one or more in state.

Some people always put on a show of having money (hence the car, nice clothes etc..) even when they don't.....

OP, you know nothing of the actual ins and outs of the family finances.

I was at school on a scholarship - we were dirt poor, and it was badly needed. but I still had 'extras' - music tuition and trips - because my grandparents, or aunts/uncles paid for them.

my dss was at school as a full boarder, and we ended up needing a bursary. we had just bought a brand new car (nothing flash, but it was new), and were having a shedload of building works done on our house. there were reasons for both of these expenses - reasons which we had to lay out to the school, in full detail.

dss went on his fair share of school trips, and several holidays a year (more with his mother than with us, although she couldn't help out with the school fees ); he wore designer gear (again, supplied by his mother) as did my dsd, his mum, and dh's suits are generally not off-the-rack ones. I am sure that many may well have questioned the need for a bursary, if they had known. but it was needed.

appearances can be vey deceptive indeed.

"mum drives a newish car, always wears labels (north face coat etc), and now daughter is probably going on a school trip to Australia"

Even if they drove an old car [it's too racy/vintage], wore old clothes [you'd have to have a country estate to get them worn down like that] and were not going to Australia [on alternative prestigious thing instead], there are ways aplenty they'd fall foul of the "deserving image".

It's the school's funds, but you can influence how they use them by withdrawing your DD. Or, as others have said, apply for a bursary yourself.

Even when the Government had an assisted places scheme there were more candidates of a suitable standard than there were funds available. And it happens with things other than education (ever tried for a lottery grant: you can tick all the boxes, but still be turned down if funds go to an even better project at the time you apply and there's no money left.

Some schools are attempting a full 'needs blind' scheme (guaranteeing bursary for certain income bands), but none in UK has yet managed it (see the Sutton Trust for information on this, they are champions both of return of assisted paces and also of 'needs blind' admission). The trouble is, you need a huge bursary pot to be able to underwrite 'needs blind' and make a genuine undertaking to fund. It's much more common in US, where philanthropic giving to one's old school is also more common.

kez100 - yes, you've got it - it is a limited pot of money and entirely at the school's discretion.

I think I would feel the same. Maybe they are self employed. It is far easier to appear to reduce your annual income when you are not on someone elses payroll. there can be alot of offsetting

or as someone said they could live beyond their means.

We have a scholarship (academic test) and bursary (means tested, form filling!). It is totally confidential and my son only knows about other people's situations because the boys have talked about it amongst themselves.
We have a new car (replacing one on its last legs) - due to an unexpected inheritance. My son is going on a trip overseas - because his grandparents offered to pay for it. You cannot judge other people's financial situations on appearances.

"I wish schools would keep it confidential it leads to no end of bitterness and jealously."

Well, in the case of the OP it is the mother who has told everyone. Also, if your child knows there is no way to guarantee they've not told someone who's told someone else... DS1 had a good scholarship. He knows which other boys in his class have scholarships and what level and also whether some have bursaries. It will only be the boys who have told him this.

OP I don't understand why you can't afford the trip to Australia - you have good jobs a nice house and dc in private school - what an earth are you spending your money on that you can't afford the trip - t is madness.

It makes me wonder if you have any money sense at all or you just fritter away money like water?

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not nice having someone go over your finances and wondering how they do this or why they can't afford to do that - it's called nosey parker

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I wish schools would keep it confidential it leads to no end of bitterness and jealously. I don't blame OP for feeling that way. However I have been on the other side of it. One of my children was given a full scholarship in primary school. It was not means tested and included all uniform, trips etc. It had been advertised locally as the school was fairly new and trying to attract pupils - we applied and our child got it, because the Head really liked me and my kid. We were badly off financially at the time and could not have afforded it anyway. I don't know how they found out, but other parents were insanely jealous and did anything possible to put the knife in -saying horrid things about my kid's abilities and also running, bitching about me personally to the Head. It was all very unpleasant and a great relief when we finally left the school.

Car might be a company car, they are always new. North face may be fake!

Ds is on a full bursary, on the paperwork it says the school may at times also offer financial assistance for school trips and extras which would be of benefit to the pupil. in our case this has not happened for a trip but the school did offer additional funding on top of fees so my son could take part in a particular sport.

you're right it's none of your business. Unless you have a full breakdown of family income, who owns the car, whether the clothes were gifts etc you can not determine whether the bursary is deserved or not.

In fact unless they're giving a full bursary they're not going to want someone to be on the breadline because they'll want them to be able to pay for the rest without it being too perilous

SOme bursaries apply for school trips and music lessons too. So child paying 20% fees, will only pay 20% of trip, and 20% of music lessons.
One bursar said to me that they are not expecting bursary families to be on the bread line, but to show that they have made sacrifices and work hard in their chosen professions.
You will never really know what goes on.

IME experience people who appear outwardly well-off are usually up to their eyes in debt, people who are genuinely well-off (apart from the super wealthy) don't feel the need to prove it with flash cars and designer clothes.

That said, it's very easy for the self-employed and people who run their own companies to have a very low income on paper, which I imagine would help when applying for bursaries.

Either way, it's not healthy for you to worry about it.

Many schools do look at assets when awarding bursaries not just income.

Perhaps the trip will be funded in part by the bursary too?

But as others have said its just not your business.

Thanks. Thats how they control it then. It is completely up to the school if they give a bursary and how much. It's not something you are absolutely entitled to because you have a small income.

I think there is a heriarchy.
Existing pupils

Children with scholarships

I'm not sure what else though

DSs school has a set "pot" of money for bursaries and a set pot of money for scholarships. If more boys want bursaries than there is money, they won't all get them. I have no idea how they choose.