bursaries... would this piss you off?

I had a big bursary for my DD and I wear some designer clothes because I get them in charity shops and on Ebay and my parents and DHs DO indeed buy things for my DD such as trips and nice clothes.

Shoot me.

Why not a bursery? I'm a SAHM. DH couldn't do his job if I wasn't.

We applied for ds1, were honest and got the bursary. Nothing underhand, nothing unfair about it.
ds2 has both. He only got the bursary because he got the scholarship. Again every one else had the same options as us.

There appears an agreement amongst the better schools to limit scholarships to a maximum of 50%, most are nowhere near. However schools control their funds, so they can top up with anything else, usually bursaries.

However if say child is excluded from bursary e.g. non-resident, and bursar et al are keen, you find inexplicably a child could hold several scholarships despite being unable to get say either music or academic places at state schools. In the end, it's the school's call.

That would be a scholarship, Thirdhill, no? Not a bursary? Unless for some accounting subterfuge what was in effect a scholarship got recorded with bursaries.

If friend shared the fact that she has 80% Bursary then I would think she was friend enough to directly ask her how she was funding trip to Oz & new car. No need to speculate?

Then again, if people here can't keep straight what a scholarship is & what a bursary is, then maybe OP's friend has it wrong, too; maybe her child is actually on a scholarship & not a bursary.

"90% bursary given to my friend and her dp for their only child's place at a terribly well known and expensive public school. One of the parents is a sahp. So how does that work then?"

Easy. They want the child.

I don't know a great deal about bursaries but I am very about the 90% bursary given to my friend and her dp for their only child's place at a terribly well known and expensive public school. One of the parents is a sahp. So how does that work then?

And I've already stated if you've nothing to hide why moan about endless forms and home visits from the bursar? Over five years of senior school we're going to be let off over £110 000 in fees surely those parents who are not getting bursaries would like to know that those of us who are are legitimately entitled to this reduction.

I think as the bursary route becomes more well-known and more applications - worthy and otherwise - are received that some schools will employ professional services such as those used in the US to determine eligibility. You can't expect individual bursars to spend hours doing forensic accountancy work.

"but not the investigative 'smelling fraud' tone that has been mentioned on this thread."
In the 8 years we have been on bursaries from three different school the bursar has barely even spoken to us let alone interviewed us we just complete the annual forms and send them in. But I do think that bursars are entitled to be suspicious because a least five parents in the 8 years have said to me that they have considered lying on the application form to get a bursary especially to senior boarding schools!

The ferrari would be an asset. Unless you had bought it on credit in which case it would also be a liability.

I'm pretty sure you would have to disclose your assets, including the family Ferrari.

LOL at Ferrari Testorossa

I'm not a bursar, I hasten to add! "If I were a bursar" I should have said.

Yes, but why should their child get a bursary? If I remortgaged my house, travelled first class a few times and bought myself a flash car, then we'd be in debt. But - we'd still be enjoying the material goods we'd bought. We'd be riding round in my Ferrari Testarossa, sporting our suntans and fancy togs - why should we then be entitled to a bursary when some other person was slogging away in a poorly-paid job and living within their means?

As a bursar I must say that "I'm in debt" would cut no ice with me.

You never know the truth that lies behind closed doors.

I became very close to someone who we all perceived as loaded. They had flash cars, lots of holidays blah blah blah. The truth (she became a v. close friend) was shocking amounts of debt and hiding from the debt collectors. Her husband treated it like a game. Utterly shocking!

I went to a private school as a pupil who was way way behind the economic pulling power of the vast majority. I had strategies and dealt with the stuff that did happen (whihc was occasionally extreme) - and was OK.

A friend of mine had a scholarship place at a popular private school and left because of the exclusion and isolation and lack of ski-ing trips.

I would be happy with a means tested bursary being based on disclosure of accounts, but not the investigative 'smelling fraud' tone that has been mentioned on this thread.

Anecdotal evidence, it doesn't happen to everyone, many success stories - but it does happen, and the bitchiness of the OP happens, just as other kinds of school gate nonsense goes on at other types of schools.

People need to be honest, not defensive.

I've found the biggest reason is that people just simply don't realise they can. Of course once they know they could there may be other reasons

I've never felt the poor parents at the school gates was torturous. Yes we know we are poorer but it doesn't make us inferior

DS says they've never talked about bursaries and he doesn't feel different to the others. Well nothing caused by money anyway, he has other social struggles which have improved since starting this school.

I went to state school and talking to teachers about expectations etc is pretty much how it is at state schools to my knowledge so far.

"There must be something which stops all reasonably clever children of poor people from all applying "

If you have an 80% bursary on a 15k fee, you'd still have to pay £3k per year, £250 per month.

If you were on, say, a salary of £20k and renting privately, no savings (like your example), that's a huge chunk of your monthly income and I don't think many people would find it doable.

"There must be something which stops all reasonably clever children of poor people from all applying "

All the rumour mongers spreading guff about What Private School Is like If You Are Not Wealthy probably don't help.

"Of having a school bursar peer into every aspect of your finances 'smelling fraud'? "
Bursars are entitled to look into your finances especially if your receiving like us a £21 000 reduction. I have nothing to hide they can search my attic for the Monet and my whole village for the aston Martin and every Swiss bank for the trust fund I don't have any of those things. If your not guilty you have nothing to fear. We're just an average middle class family working hard to pay school fees.
My DS is a school with some of the wealthiest families in the UK not once has anyone sneered at him in fact his Housemaster recently commented on his popularity with all. He doesn't look like a poor relation just an average teenager.

"There must be something which stops all reasonably clever children of poor people from all applying "

The fear of this sort of school gate snipery? Of having a school bursar peer into every aspect of your finances 'smelling fraud'? Wondering whether people will be advising other parents to report you anonymously 'like with benefit cheats'? The need to keep your child looking like the poor relation in case of the above? The fact that your child may well then be exposed and sneered at for having less money (as does happen)...

OP - maybe having a bursary means they only have to pay 20% of the school trip costs!

Why on earth would any school organise a £3k school trip to Australia? Talk about divisive!

One bursar once said to me that when parents turn up to visit the school in a new Aston Martin and then moan on about fees etc he just laughs. Many I understand now visit your home so you would have to hide the Monet!
I suspect many bursars can smell fraud although with so many more applying perhaps its becoming increasingly difficult.

I just had a look at the website of a private school near me and in the bursary section it stated that not just income and value of property were counted, but that a full audit of all assets and other sources of income were investigated. It sounds as if they'd had a few "creative" applications in the past.

I guess some people know how to play the game. If I were a bursar I'd look long and hard at anyone self-employed who claimed to be living on tuppence ha'penny. Also, I don't see why they'd rather not have a fair number of clever pupils each receiving a bit of a discount, rather than one lucky person getting the full whack - unless that pupil was a genius.

OP I think you've been slightly attacked here for your posting. Although I agree with most of what is written it is human nature to wonder how this family got a bursary.
There are some other factors you may have not taken into consideration; do they have other DC's in the school, length of time at the school perhaps they joined before you when the school just had a larger pot of money, obviously as already pointed out although scholarships don't usually carry financial rewards anymore you are often more likely to get a bursary if you have a scholarship and finally the elephant in the room this family lied on the forms when applying!! I have been frequently asked "what stops you from lying?" Ok its difficult to hide wages. cost of mortgage, and also equity in your home but you could if you were so minded not declare things trust funds etc. Obviously its fraud but plenty of people commit fraud in other areas so why wouldn't people do it to get a bursary? Lets face it people do all sort of other things to get their DC into the "right" school. Having said this at the end of the day I suspect there's nothing you can do about it.
What is also of interest is why you didn't get one. You say this family are only paying 20% (although I note in your OP that you say think they're only paying 20%) that is a fairly hefty reduction and IME only given by schools who are generous with their bursaries. Can I suggest you go and talk to the bursar again discuss your situation with him be honest if the answer reminds no ask why. Lets face it you have nothing to loose.